Dear Robert, Stephen Spoonamore might be right or he might be wrong. You have no idea. And you're missing the point. Here are some facts we do know--A group of top-flight computer scientists and cybersecurity experts wrote Kamala Harris a letter strongly urging her to seek hand-recounts in several swing states. They do not claim evidence…
Dear Robert, Stephen Spoonamore might be right or he might be wrong. You have no idea. And you're missing the point. Here are some facts we do know--A group of top-flight computer scientists and cybersecurity experts wrote Kamala Harris a letter strongly urging her to seek hand-recounts in several swing states. They do not claim evidence of fraud but they do cite well-documented evidence of Trump supporters unlawfully breaching proprietary voting systems, copying its software, and distributing it across the Internet following the 2020 election. Spoonamore cites their letter in his own and takes it up a notch. Both letters primary point is that there is no way to know for sure what the actual outcome is/was without some sort of hand-recount or audit. Republicans make all the noise in the world over false claims of election fraud and actually move the needle of public opinion. Dems, on the other hand, prefer paralysis and passivity when confronted with actual evidence of unusual voting anomalies and actual evidence of Republican ill intent. And there is urgency here. Harris has very little time left to demand a recount. Spoonamore is a highly reputable cybersecurity expert. He might be right. He might be wrong. Wouldn't you like to know for sure? I would. And this has nothing to do with ongoing evaluations of how to run better campaigns. It has everything to do with providing the public some reasonable expectation that elections results truly reflect the people's will. We're just following John Lewis's brilliant exhortation trying to make some "good trouble."
Much of the fraud alleged by Spoonamore occurred in jurisdictions controlled by Democratic election officials. They have undoubtedly seen his letter. They are in a position to evaluate his claims, even if I am not. None of them have chosen to act based on his allegations. A reasonable inference from that set of facts is that the election officials in a position to evaluate his assertions do not find them sufficiently credible to demand a recount. The “just asking questions” approach to alleging fraud would never meet the standard of proof in court to justify a recount.
"They have undoubtedly seen his letter." is not a fact. It's an assumption. I don't know whether election officials on their own can conduct a comprehensive recount in a case like this or not. No idea what "just asking questions" approach means. Spoonamore was right about the Cleland/Chambliss race years ago. He discovered the Ohio vote tabulations being rerouted out of state then back again in 2004. He noticed no irregularities in 2008, 2012, 2016, 2020. He's a lifelong Republican and cybersecurity expert. Can you acknowledge that he might have knowledge about and insight into this sort of thing that you do not? And you have not addressed the warnings of the other reputable computer scientists who DON'T claim fraud but are just really concerned because of the stealing and dispersing of proprietary voting software by Trump supporters. The alarmed vendor of the machines said because of that theft they were vulnerable to manipulation without the patch that, in Georgia anyway, Raffensperger refused to install till after the 2024 election. Again, you might be right. You might be wrong. There is no way to know for sure without a hand-recount or audit of some sort.
Robert, I am concerned about the tone of many of this morning's comments. I am scared, mostly about my health insurance and Social Security. The comments I have read so far (it's 7:30 am right now) seem extreme. However, I don't know what to think. Can you weigh in regarding this morning's comments? It's fine to do it in tomorrow morning's newsletter.
Kathy - That is EXACTLY how they STOLE this election! Voter suppression fueled by gerrymandering. Voter suppression fueled by laws and actions that targeted voting in Blue districts. Voter suppression by ads micro targeting specific groups often with opposite messages. Voter suppression by phoning in bomb threats to polling places in swing states.
I believe that the a number of around 300,000 votes cost Harris/Walz the election in a few of those swing states. I look forward to an analysis of how many votes the billionaires helped suppress so the Christofascists could steal this election. Only about a third of eligible voters elected Trump/Vance.
As Ds we are experiencing death by a thousand cuts. I find Robert's title: Addressing claims that the 2024 election was "stolen"; to be very misleading because this election WAS stolen. Until some billionaires like Mark Cuban start funding and helping the DNC with a disciplined comm strategy that reverses this voter suppression our country is screwed.
It is certainly worth exploring in a calm but thorough way. Some FBI division warned of a serious election interference threat earlier in the fall. There's a "do something" rubric operating here. I sincerely hope Harris is using her resources as a sitting Vice President to explore it. I am sending her more money. I want her to stay on the scene. Like Trump did for 4 years.
Spoonamore says there are. What's your expertise? He's a cybersecurity expert specializing in credit card and computer fraud. Spoonamore made a big fuss years ago when Max Cleland, a very popular incumbent expected to easily retain his senate seat, was beaten by Saxby Chambliss in a stunning upset. Years after the fact Cleland told Spoonamore he should have taken him more seriously.
Hi, David. Please post the link to the letter from the cybersecurity guys to Harris. I would like to show it to a few people. I have read it myself, but I would also like to read it again. Thanks.
Jocelyn, the link I just provided has the Spoonamore letter and a little way down the Spoonamore letter he gives a link to the other computer scientists' letter. So you should be able to access both from that one link.
Are there any downsides to doing a recount? If it turns out there’s nothing wrong, we will accept that - not like the other side that kept pushing a false narrative even after being proven wrong. If there was something fishy going on, then we could act on it.
I don’t like conspiracies either, but our democracy is at stake. Shouldn’t someone like the FBI orCIA investigate the possibility? ???
Exactly. There are no downsides to doing a hand-recount or at least some sort of limited forensic audit. It's the only way to truly have confidence in election outcomes whether the concerns are imaginary and done in bad faith (2020) or painfully obvious with plenty of evidence like this year. The fact that after political operatives breached voting systems in several states, stole proprietary software, spread it over the internet and then we don't even bother to check what's real and what's not is a form of passive, collective insanity. FBI or CIA will not touch this. Not in their purview. It's entirely up to us to insist on it or let it slide.
Janet HB, Sorry, that last sentence of my response to you was terribly imprecise. Currently, I do not believe there are many legal avenues open to us, merely as citizens, to demand recounts except in some places in individual precincts. My understanding is that the way we currently have things set up it's only the candidates themselves who can really make it happen. And even then, not always. Jill Stein tried to get some hand-recounts in several swing states several election cycles ago and multiple obstacles were thrown in her way making it prohibitively expensive and thus in short order rendering it impossible.
Dear Robert, Stephen Spoonamore might be right or he might be wrong. You have no idea. And you're missing the point. Here are some facts we do know--A group of top-flight computer scientists and cybersecurity experts wrote Kamala Harris a letter strongly urging her to seek hand-recounts in several swing states. They do not claim evidence of fraud but they do cite well-documented evidence of Trump supporters unlawfully breaching proprietary voting systems, copying its software, and distributing it across the Internet following the 2020 election. Spoonamore cites their letter in his own and takes it up a notch. Both letters primary point is that there is no way to know for sure what the actual outcome is/was without some sort of hand-recount or audit. Republicans make all the noise in the world over false claims of election fraud and actually move the needle of public opinion. Dems, on the other hand, prefer paralysis and passivity when confronted with actual evidence of unusual voting anomalies and actual evidence of Republican ill intent. And there is urgency here. Harris has very little time left to demand a recount. Spoonamore is a highly reputable cybersecurity expert. He might be right. He might be wrong. Wouldn't you like to know for sure? I would. And this has nothing to do with ongoing evaluations of how to run better campaigns. It has everything to do with providing the public some reasonable expectation that elections results truly reflect the people's will. We're just following John Lewis's brilliant exhortation trying to make some "good trouble."
David Lasagna
Much of the fraud alleged by Spoonamore occurred in jurisdictions controlled by Democratic election officials. They have undoubtedly seen his letter. They are in a position to evaluate his claims, even if I am not. None of them have chosen to act based on his allegations. A reasonable inference from that set of facts is that the election officials in a position to evaluate his assertions do not find them sufficiently credible to demand a recount. The “just asking questions” approach to alleging fraud would never meet the standard of proof in court to justify a recount.
"They have undoubtedly seen his letter." is not a fact. It's an assumption. I don't know whether election officials on their own can conduct a comprehensive recount in a case like this or not. No idea what "just asking questions" approach means. Spoonamore was right about the Cleland/Chambliss race years ago. He discovered the Ohio vote tabulations being rerouted out of state then back again in 2004. He noticed no irregularities in 2008, 2012, 2016, 2020. He's a lifelong Republican and cybersecurity expert. Can you acknowledge that he might have knowledge about and insight into this sort of thing that you do not? And you have not addressed the warnings of the other reputable computer scientists who DON'T claim fraud but are just really concerned because of the stealing and dispersing of proprietary voting software by Trump supporters. The alarmed vendor of the machines said because of that theft they were vulnerable to manipulation without the patch that, in Georgia anyway, Raffensperger refused to install till after the 2024 election. Again, you might be right. You might be wrong. There is no way to know for sure without a hand-recount or audit of some sort.
Robert, I am concerned about the tone of many of this morning's comments. I am scared, mostly about my health insurance and Social Security. The comments I have read so far (it's 7:30 am right now) seem extreme. However, I don't know what to think. Can you weigh in regarding this morning's comments? It's fine to do it in tomorrow morning's newsletter.
Also in HCR's comments.
There was an enormous amount of voter suppression in the states.
Kathy - That is EXACTLY how they STOLE this election! Voter suppression fueled by gerrymandering. Voter suppression fueled by laws and actions that targeted voting in Blue districts. Voter suppression by ads micro targeting specific groups often with opposite messages. Voter suppression by phoning in bomb threats to polling places in swing states.
I believe that the a number of around 300,000 votes cost Harris/Walz the election in a few of those swing states. I look forward to an analysis of how many votes the billionaires helped suppress so the Christofascists could steal this election. Only about a third of eligible voters elected Trump/Vance.
As Ds we are experiencing death by a thousand cuts. I find Robert's title: Addressing claims that the 2024 election was "stolen"; to be very misleading because this election WAS stolen. Until some billionaires like Mark Cuban start funding and helping the DNC with a disciplined comm strategy that reverses this voter suppression our country is screwed.
It is certainly worth exploring in a calm but thorough way. Some FBI division warned of a serious election interference threat earlier in the fall. There's a "do something" rubric operating here. I sincerely hope Harris is using her resources as a sitting Vice President to explore it. I am sending her more money. I want her to stay on the scene. Like Trump did for 4 years.
But there aren’t “unusual voting anomalies”.
How do we know how many votes were suppressed and purged by various means (which won’t show up in exit polls)?
Spoonamore says there are. What's your expertise? He's a cybersecurity expert specializing in credit card and computer fraud. Spoonamore made a big fuss years ago when Max Cleland, a very popular incumbent expected to easily retain his senate seat, was beaten by Saxby Chambliss in a stunning upset. Years after the fact Cleland told Spoonamore he should have taken him more seriously.
Hi, David. Please post the link to the letter from the cybersecurity guys to Harris. I would like to show it to a few people. I have read it myself, but I would also like to read it again. Thanks.
Here ya go, Jocelyn.
https://substack.com/home/post/p-151721941
Jocelyn, the link I just provided has the Spoonamore letter and a little way down the Spoonamore letter he gives a link to the other computer scientists' letter. So you should be able to access both from that one link.
Are there any downsides to doing a recount? If it turns out there’s nothing wrong, we will accept that - not like the other side that kept pushing a false narrative even after being proven wrong. If there was something fishy going on, then we could act on it.
I don’t like conspiracies either, but our democracy is at stake. Shouldn’t someone like the FBI orCIA investigate the possibility? ???
Exactly. There are no downsides to doing a hand-recount or at least some sort of limited forensic audit. It's the only way to truly have confidence in election outcomes whether the concerns are imaginary and done in bad faith (2020) or painfully obvious with plenty of evidence like this year. The fact that after political operatives breached voting systems in several states, stole proprietary software, spread it over the internet and then we don't even bother to check what's real and what's not is a form of passive, collective insanity. FBI or CIA will not touch this. Not in their purview. It's entirely up to us to insist on it or let it slide.
Janet HB, Sorry, that last sentence of my response to you was terribly imprecise. Currently, I do not believe there are many legal avenues open to us, merely as citizens, to demand recounts except in some places in individual precincts. My understanding is that the way we currently have things set up it's only the candidates themselves who can really make it happen. And even then, not always. Jill Stein tried to get some hand-recounts in several swing states several election cycles ago and multiple obstacles were thrown in her way making it prohibitively expensive and thus in short order rendering it impossible.