Regarding the Houti missiles, don't forget that President Biden didn't take the bait for a Gulf of Tonkin resolution from Congress, another lesson he is applying in real time. His speech was truly a magnificent lesson for all Americans. Amazingly efficient with his use of words. He seized a very difficult teachable moment for all of the world to learn from. What he says and his delvery is that of a learned wise man. Would he only have Obama's cadence and ability to project. He deserves so much more credit than the polls indicate he is receiving. Agree: we need to overcome the polls, get out the vote, and get him re-elected. We can do this. We have a great candidate for this moment in time. It's true. It may be the most important election of our lives.
He is truly such a great leader. History will reward him, but I hope his prime-time speech reaches some people's minds at this time and helps them realize how blessed we are to have him. It's so interesting how many times he ran for this office and didn't make it. THIS was his time. We were going to need him NOW.
YES! We are damn lucky we got him now! Best pres of my lifetime, which began the first summer of the Eisenhower Administration, unless you count in utero, in which case the last autumn of the Truman Administration.
So well said. Thank you, Peter. Always remember that President Biden is 80 years old, has overcome a stutter, and has just given us one of the most inspirational speeches I've heard in my lifetime. That is courage and commitment. It is beautiful to see.
For anyone finding themselves in a disagreement with someone else, these 4 steps for non-violent communication might be helpful. (Successfully tried them myself!)
1. Observe and recap. The process begins with neutral observation.
2. Describe emotions, not positions.
3. Identify needs.
4. Make a request.
For example: "When you said ____, I felt ____. I need ____. Could you please ____?"
Ellie, While the climate here in the States admittedly can generate a level of anger and aggression to make communication near impossible, in my experience, formulaic remedies sometimes stifle the free exchange of ideas. Accordingly, I have reduced unblocking barriers to meaningful communication to one principle: in a word, when a person feels she or he genuinely is being listened to, that person, typically, though not always, repays by listening.
Yes, Barbara I agree - Listening is the key to having meaningful conversations around difficult topics. Listening, and then each telling our own story about why we feel the way we do.
It all must be done with respect for each other’s feelings and each other’s story. This process helps to open one’s mind to another’s perspective and leads to understanding. Which leads to better solutions on how best to solve our problems.
Guilty pleas, like Sidney Powell's, are effective in persuading the public that a crime was committed. Whether it was Howard Hunt during Watergate or Sidney Powell in the multiple crimes of Trump, guilty pleas and the associated cooperation get the public to believe.
Oct 20, 2023·edited Oct 20, 2023Liked by Robert B. Hubbell
Skulk is the perfect verb. This is a great post, as always, Robert, but I think your closing paragraphs are particularly important. Together we can accomplish anything. “ A house divided” . . .etc.
Again well said Robert. I don’t believe the polls about Biden’s unpopularity when you still have the GOP (after signaling their support for social security and Medicare in the state of the union address) so openly support Congressman Jordan whose motives so clearly explained by Congressman Cole.
This craziness is a result of many issues none of which is about country and people first.
I just hope his handling of this huge crisis impresses some people who worry so much about his age! How can they not see the wisdom? The benefit of his long experience? I am stunned by it myself, and thank God for him.
Oct 20, 2023·edited Oct 20, 2023Liked by Robert B. Hubbell
I thought of you and Jill last evening Robert, as I watched and listened to our president and I was thinking, "This is a great speech. This is a great president".
As President Biden spoke, I had thoughts flooding my thinking-
I am so utterly grateful that he is our leader
At this time when I have reached the midpoint in my 7th decade of life, I can see that I am here to
witness a period when we have one of the most exceptional presidents of all time.
It's true! It's wonderful to be alive when we have such an exceptional leader! I liken it to having the wind at my back when bicycling. He'll go down with Lincoln and Roosevelt.
I am increasingly thinking that the only thing that the mainstream press is good for is absolutely nothing but furthering the erosion of our democracy. Thanks for going where the mainstream press does not!
I listened to President Biden last night and was moved to tears. His humanity, empathy and articulation of the importance of our involvements in both Israel and Ukraine was incredible. His spelling out the linkages between Putin, Iran, Ukraine, Hezbollah and Hamas was clear and informative. And, yes, he did remind Americans that he was the only president since Lincoln to visit two countries at war, struggling for survival. And that he made two 10 hour train rides from Poland to Ukraine. (We know people need reminding!) What he has done is remarkable. Each day I am awed by his presidency. So the contrast listening to NPR was infuriating. NPR – supposed to be the enclave of good reporting. It would have been nice to hear from the 5 people on the show that this was an impressive speech given by a president who is clearly in control, who speaks forcefully and knowledgably about the issues and whose years in the senate, as vice-president have prepared a man of substance to deal with the vexing complexities that are challenging democracy. They could have said, ‘boy, what a contrast to the 4 years of bombastic, divisive, ignorant drivel we were subjected to by the former person in the oval office.’ But no --- how will this affect his chances in 2024? Do you think he was disappointed that his meetings in Jordan and Egypt were cancelled? Any idiot knows the answer. I am certain that he was on the phone repeatedly with King Abdulla and President El-Sisi. Nothing about Biden’s moral clarity. The inanity of the media is mindboggling!
I had a paragraph in last night's newsletter criticizing the media's response to the speech. Chris Hayes was horrible--and I am a big fan. He did not spend five seconds praising a speech that is now being recognized as one of the best of Biden's career. Instead, he had on Medhi Hassan, who explained why the rest of the world hates America. An odd rejoinder to a speech that attempted to bring unity and humanity to the crisis in the Middle East.
While my comment is not meant to detract from the high praise President Biden’s address to the nation merits, I would note as he methodically threaded the needle linking Ukraine with Israel, he neglected to address some of the crucial loose threads along the way. The one I expect most bothered people both at home and abroad is the one underscoring that Ukrainians and Palestinians also share a common struggle. One is seeking freedom from Russia, the other is seeking freedom from Israel.
Postscript: Re-reading Robert’s Concluding Thoughts, I would note I don’t view airing our differences related to Middle East policy as detracting from our chief priority—defending American democracy. If anything, engaging in open, vibrant, and diverse points of view, when predicated on mutual respect, is the lifeblood of democracy.
I am not discussing disagreement. Democrats are attacking one another based on their positions on Israel. That can't happen if we hope to save democracy.
Robert, I agree. Hence, I express my concerns privately so, if we need to self-correct, we can do so privately. Regrettably, I got hit with a barrage of arguments, some partly accurate and others entirely inaccurate. Because I felt responsible for replying with knowledge I have accumulated since Oslo in the early 90s, I spent calories that should have gone elsewhere. I only hope that by setting aside inconvenient truths we don’t exact a price.
Robert, Because the current crisis is situated within a larger context that was not acknowledged, Biden’s address, which, in my view, drew justifiable criticism, greatly concerned me. While Biden was not my pick either for 2020 or 2024, I, nonetheless continue to work tirelessly on his behalf. The only reason I posted is because I fear we dismiss controversy at our peril.
No, Barbara, I am not at all bothered by the lack of an analogy between Ukrainians and Palestinians. On the contrary, the “loose thread” for me is that the analogy between the Ukraine and Israel only goes so far. Putin wants Ukrainian land to be part of Russia. The dispute in the Middle East is not just territorial: Hamas’s stated purpose is to kill all Jews.
Carissa, To start, my understanding is that if Putin can’t have Ukraine, he plans to level it. As for Hamas, regrettably, relatively few people recall that, in April 2008, then-former President Jimmy Carter traveled to Gaza and extracted an agreement from Hamas for a ten-year truce and for recognition of a Palestinian state, upon Israel withdrawing to her 1967 pre-war borders. Because Carter was on an unofficial mission, the Bush Administration dismissed the negotiated settlement.
My point is that the conflict is the direct result of Israeli occupation, since 1967, of Palestinian land—the longest occupation in modern history. Were Israel to withdraw to its pre-war 1967 borders, the violence would end. Meanwhile, Palestinians continue to resist because, after 56 years of occupation, they see that this is the only path to self-determination.
First of all, Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005. They do not occupy those lands.
Second, it is naive to think that if Israel withdraws from it pre-war 1967 borders there will be peace. There wasn't peace before that.
Third, Palestinians could have had 95% of what they wanted in 2001. Instead they started an Intifada. They want it all. Hamas' goal, as well as Hezbollah, is to wipe Jews out.
Fourth, anti-Semitism is baked in to the tapestry of Western and Eastern Civilization.
Fifth, you have not heard some of the speakers I have heard in person. Yassar Arafat's chief legal counsel and the Syrian Ambassador who was recalled just a few months later because Syria was deemed a terrorist State. Both of them and more not only trash Jews and Israel but trash America. They were agitators
While the Palestinians have a humanitarian plight, a lot of this has been brought on them by 550 million Arabs who would not help refugees for the last 75 years.
To Ed's last point: There are two situations analagous to the Palestinians.
At the end of WW II, 2.2. million Germans were evicted from East Prussia, a province that had been almost exclusively German for over 1,000 years.
in 1947, as many as 10 million Hindus and Muslims were forced to leave their homes as a result of Partition of India.
In both cases, the populations were absorbed into the countries they fled to and 75 years later, no one is living in a refugee camp and Germany, like Israel, has a Right of Return for Germans living in regions from which they were expeled.
Ed, Replying to your first three points: 1) Gaza, likened to an open air prison, has no access to the outside world except through Israel, which controls 90% of its land and sea boundaries, and through Egypt, which has a narrow land border to the south. 2) If today you were to ask everyday Israelis and Palestinians what they want, you would learn they were seeking two very different freedoms. One seeking freedom from terror; the other seeking freedom from Israel. I have read / heard time and again that were Israel to withdraw to its pre-war 1967 borders, the violence would end. 3) The 2001 agreement would have delivered to Palestinians a West Bank that was non-contiguous. To be clear, a non-contiguous Palestinian state is one whose areas outside its enclaves are controlled by Israel.
Alan, I’m entirely familiar with the text Robert posted. I also am well-versed in the overall global response were Israel to remove its settlements from disputed territory. Accordingly, I don’t expect we’ll live to see a secure Israeli or Palestinian state unless some approximation of the 67 borders is agreed upon.
Hamas's stated mission is to kill and ellimnate all the Jews in Israel.
Period. Full Stop.
They agreed to whatever Carter asked precisely because they knew it would have no impact, that it was not an official agreement and carried no weight. Their current mission and everything that they put out in that regard makes it explicitly clear that they want the whole country and don't see a place for Jews in it.
As for your suggestion, withdrawing to the pre-67 borders is NOT what Hamas wants. They want the whole country.
There is a simple solution to the current crisis, one that would save the people of Gaza much hurt and suffering: Hamas releases all of the hostages.
One more thing. It's probably going to sound like I've heard everybody or seen them...I have not.
But I have heard, seen, and talked with the Imam who built the Mosque at Ground Zero in NYC. We had him here in Missoula a few years back. The only questions he would field were those that were prewritten. However, in his lecture, he came right out and said that the Islam Quran is a correction of the Hebrew Bible. Isaac was not the sacrificial son. Ishmael was the sacrifice. Thus, their claim to be the true divine lineage of Abraham. They believe that they replace the Christian covenant with G-d. If the Imam's belief holds true throughout the Muslim world, then it just isn't the Jews that are "wrong" it is anyone who embraces any brand of Christianity.
I did talk with him afterwards and bought his book. It was a difficult read and I admit could not finish it.
I have my own thoughts and conclusions. I'll just let you draw yours.
Alan, First, release of the hostages, albeit critical, would not ensure Israel would restrain from further incursions into the region. Second, I would note that everyday Israeli and Palestinian people largely seek two very different freedoms. One wants freedom from terror; the other wants freedom from Israel. In my view, the greatest obstacle to peace is leadership on both sides locked into old ways of thinking.
Release of the hostages could be conditioned on Israel's agreement to stop bombing Gaza and Hamas's agreement to stop sending rockets and terrorists into Israel. Imagine if Hamas spent the money the Qataris gave them on actually deveoping their country and not on tunnels and missles.All sorts of wonderful things might happen like the Egyptians opening the Rafah crossing and allowing Gazans to work in Egypt. (Something the Israelis were already doing before Oct 7th.)
In terms of peace, step one is for the Palestinians to decide who is in charge, Fatah or Hamas. The two groups hate each other more than they hate the Israelis, one is supported by the Saudis, the other the Iranians, and it's all but impossible to make peace with a country in the midst of a civil war.
On the Israeli side, it seems very likely that Netanyahu and his right wing crazies will be voted out, they are being blamed for this across the entire political spectrum .
So that is a start, but there is a long way to go.
Alan, While you make some good points, I leave you with a question relative to your statement that Hamas could use the money the Qataris gave them to develop their country: Given that Gaza, likened to an open-air prison, has no access to the outside world except through Israel, which controls 90% of its land and sea boundaries, and through Egypt, which has a narrow land border to the south, how would that work?
Barbara intones, “Freedom from Israel” for Gaza. That is utterly ahistorical.
Without preconditions, Ariel Sharon’s government in Israel withdrew *all* occupying forces from Gaza. They left behind infrastructure that Gazans could use. Gazans destroyed that infrastructure.
There followed a struggle between Hamas and the Palestinian Authority for control of Gaza. Much was violent; Hamas won.
History shows that Gaza had “Freedom from Israel.” For years, *Hamas has used that “freedom” to attack Israel militarily* - rocket launches, for example, and a bestial invasion on October 7th.
Michael, Quoting Reuters (October 12, 2023), “After its unilateral exit [in 2005], Israel imposed a temporary land, air, and sea blockade on Gaza, imposing curbs on exports, and severely restricting who could access the territory. Citing security concerns, the blockade became permanent from 2007 onward…”
The critical part is mutual respect, with that, we're working to resolve differences in order to have a cohesive policy that most of us support. Without that respect, we're just shouting at each other in the hope of getting press.
Dave, One reason for my original post was to convey the idea that intelligent and sincere people can have fundamental disagreements about complex matters, and that usually much more can be accomplished by trying to understand and accommodate the other position than by ignoring it or dismissing it. For me, the focus is on letting the other person know that she or he is being listened to and respected, even, I dare say, when being disagreed with or refuted.
A question a friend of mine asked me yesterday was “ there is a lot going on regarding Israel, the House debacle, Sidney Powell and a host of other stuff but does anyone really care or are we so numb and overwhelmed.? A question I have asked myself many times. Over the past few days President Biden has made several ground breaking and wonderful speeches that alone should convince all voters that he is the right person at the right moment for this country and to protect our democracy and we are very fortunate to have him in this role. But will it make a difference to some voters.? The Biden speeches should have been front and center in all media coverage because really what is more important our relationship with Israel and the protection against a horrendous attack or watching a clown fail again in pursuit of an office he is not qualified to hold? President Biden through actions and comments has demonstrated why he should be re-elected. and there is no political advertising campaign that could ever match his actual on the job performance. Hopefully slowly voters will come to realize Biden is the only choice going forward to provide the leadership our country demands.
Honestly, I'm dying of boredom of the GOP house mess. They're hopeless, will never be able to elect a speaker, there is no halfway sane person on the GOP side who WANTS the job, a handful are perfectly content to keep spinning the government wheels, and working with the Dems will never happen. Rinse and repeat. Yawn.
I just spent 20 minutes quickly leaving 24 voicemails to congresspeople who, thus far, are thumbs down on Jordan. At this time of day (before 8 a.m. ET), the calls go to VM. Although these are not my representatives, when asked to leave a zip code, I typically do--this is a national position, for goodness sake. Even calling 1-2-3 folks might make a difference. These 24 need encouragement, IMHO. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1j72YFTLHuen77-5W3ICea7xkLztpLkDatJG68qpRpRQ/edit?usp=sharing
Based on reported votes, there are somewhere between 30 and 80 Republicans who might be expected to support a compromise candidate and resolve the Speakership issue. Several, including Don Bacon, have spoken publicly about the idea and one wonders what they are waiting for.
Is there a mechanism by which a majority of the members could call the House into session absent the Speaker? It's time the Republicans stopped treating themselves as an unthinking 'caucus' and behave like the adults who most of their constituents thought they were electing.
Regarding the Houti missiles, don't forget that President Biden didn't take the bait for a Gulf of Tonkin resolution from Congress, another lesson he is applying in real time. His speech was truly a magnificent lesson for all Americans. Amazingly efficient with his use of words. He seized a very difficult teachable moment for all of the world to learn from. What he says and his delvery is that of a learned wise man. Would he only have Obama's cadence and ability to project. He deserves so much more credit than the polls indicate he is receiving. Agree: we need to overcome the polls, get out the vote, and get him re-elected. We can do this. We have a great candidate for this moment in time. It's true. It may be the most important election of our lives.
He is truly such a great leader. History will reward him, but I hope his prime-time speech reaches some people's minds at this time and helps them realize how blessed we are to have him. It's so interesting how many times he ran for this office and didn't make it. THIS was his time. We were going to need him NOW.
YES! We are damn lucky we got him now! Best pres of my lifetime, which began the first summer of the Eisenhower Administration, unless you count in utero, in which case the last autumn of the Truman Administration.
Thank you Peter, you said it all well. I agree 100%.
So well said. Thank you, Peter. Always remember that President Biden is 80 years old, has overcome a stutter, and has just given us one of the most inspirational speeches I've heard in my lifetime. That is courage and commitment. It is beautiful to see.
Yes, yes, yes!
For anyone finding themselves in a disagreement with someone else, these 4 steps for non-violent communication might be helpful. (Successfully tried them myself!)
1. Observe and recap. The process begins with neutral observation.
2. Describe emotions, not positions.
3. Identify needs.
4. Make a request.
For example: "When you said ____, I felt ____. I need ____. Could you please ____?"
https://www.nonviolentcommunication.com/learn-nonviolent-communication/4-part-nvc/?doing_wp_cron=1697788924.0269689559936523437500
(Hat tip to fellow reader Cathy L.!)
Ellie, While the climate here in the States admittedly can generate a level of anger and aggression to make communication near impossible, in my experience, formulaic remedies sometimes stifle the free exchange of ideas. Accordingly, I have reduced unblocking barriers to meaningful communication to one principle: in a word, when a person feels she or he genuinely is being listened to, that person, typically, though not always, repays by listening.
Yes, Barbara I agree - Listening is the key to having meaningful conversations around difficult topics. Listening, and then each telling our own story about why we feel the way we do.
It all must be done with respect for each other’s feelings and each other’s story. This process helps to open one’s mind to another’s perspective and leads to understanding. Which leads to better solutions on how best to solve our problems.
Morning, Ellie! I copied your post over on Greg Olear's Prevail newsletter. It seemed to complement the message he was delivering today.
Guilty pleas, like Sidney Powell's, are effective in persuading the public that a crime was committed. Whether it was Howard Hunt during Watergate or Sidney Powell in the multiple crimes of Trump, guilty pleas and the associated cooperation get the public to believe.
We can only hope!
Another guilty plea just now, 1:00 Pacific! What are the other thinking?
Skulk is the perfect verb. This is a great post, as always, Robert, but I think your closing paragraphs are particularly important. Together we can accomplish anything. “ A house divided” . . .etc.
Again well said Robert. I don’t believe the polls about Biden’s unpopularity when you still have the GOP (after signaling their support for social security and Medicare in the state of the union address) so openly support Congressman Jordan whose motives so clearly explained by Congressman Cole.
This craziness is a result of many issues none of which is about country and people first.
I just hope his handling of this huge crisis impresses some people who worry so much about his age! How can they not see the wisdom? The benefit of his long experience? I am stunned by it myself, and thank God for him.
I thought of you and Jill last evening Robert, as I watched and listened to our president and I was thinking, "This is a great speech. This is a great president".
As President Biden spoke, I had thoughts flooding my thinking-
I am so utterly grateful that he is our leader
At this time when I have reached the midpoint in my 7th decade of life, I can see that I am here to
witness a period when we have one of the most exceptional presidents of all time.
Commander in Chief, indeed.
It's true! It's wonderful to be alive when we have such an exceptional leader! I liken it to having the wind at my back when bicycling. He'll go down with Lincoln and Roosevelt.
Indeed!
I am increasingly thinking that the only thing that the mainstream press is good for is absolutely nothing but furthering the erosion of our democracy. Thanks for going where the mainstream press does not!
I listened to President Biden last night and was moved to tears. His humanity, empathy and articulation of the importance of our involvements in both Israel and Ukraine was incredible. His spelling out the linkages between Putin, Iran, Ukraine, Hezbollah and Hamas was clear and informative. And, yes, he did remind Americans that he was the only president since Lincoln to visit two countries at war, struggling for survival. And that he made two 10 hour train rides from Poland to Ukraine. (We know people need reminding!) What he has done is remarkable. Each day I am awed by his presidency. So the contrast listening to NPR was infuriating. NPR – supposed to be the enclave of good reporting. It would have been nice to hear from the 5 people on the show that this was an impressive speech given by a president who is clearly in control, who speaks forcefully and knowledgably about the issues and whose years in the senate, as vice-president have prepared a man of substance to deal with the vexing complexities that are challenging democracy. They could have said, ‘boy, what a contrast to the 4 years of bombastic, divisive, ignorant drivel we were subjected to by the former person in the oval office.’ But no --- how will this affect his chances in 2024? Do you think he was disappointed that his meetings in Jordan and Egypt were cancelled? Any idiot knows the answer. I am certain that he was on the phone repeatedly with King Abdulla and President El-Sisi. Nothing about Biden’s moral clarity. The inanity of the media is mindboggling!
I had a paragraph in last night's newsletter criticizing the media's response to the speech. Chris Hayes was horrible--and I am a big fan. He did not spend five seconds praising a speech that is now being recognized as one of the best of Biden's career. Instead, he had on Medhi Hassan, who explained why the rest of the world hates America. An odd rejoinder to a speech that attempted to bring unity and humanity to the crisis in the Middle East.
Wow! What a disappointment!
Excellent representation of Biden and his latest speech. May he live long and be re-elected!
One way to address the extremists in Congress is to vote them out in 2024. The Movement Voter PAC, All In For North Carolina, and Register and Vote North Carolina are hosting a Zoom event on Monday OCT 23 at 7 PM ET/6PM CT/5PM MT/4PM PT. Together, these organizations have resolved to knock on 3.8 million doors — 3 times as many as in 2022. Funding this effort early could flip results up and down the ballot, and bring a more responsive, inclusive, and representative government to NC. You can sign up for the event here: https://us06web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZIqdOmpqDMuGNWM0oo4Ab0AZ4NAg9mINild?_x_zm_rtaid=LbUE81EFSZeoGMrRmCqpRw.1697480776452.dc320ca7ade65365330077eaf2947eee&_x_zm_rhtaid=839#/registration
Hi Betsy. Write to me at rhubbell@outlook.com if you want me to promote.
While my comment is not meant to detract from the high praise President Biden’s address to the nation merits, I would note as he methodically threaded the needle linking Ukraine with Israel, he neglected to address some of the crucial loose threads along the way. The one I expect most bothered people both at home and abroad is the one underscoring that Ukrainians and Palestinians also share a common struggle. One is seeking freedom from Russia, the other is seeking freedom from Israel.
Postscript: Re-reading Robert’s Concluding Thoughts, I would note I don’t view airing our differences related to Middle East policy as detracting from our chief priority—defending American democracy. If anything, engaging in open, vibrant, and diverse points of view, when predicated on mutual respect, is the lifeblood of democracy.
I am not discussing disagreement. Democrats are attacking one another based on their positions on Israel. That can't happen if we hope to save democracy.
Robert, I agree. Hence, I express my concerns privately so, if we need to self-correct, we can do so privately. Regrettably, I got hit with a barrage of arguments, some partly accurate and others entirely inaccurate. Because I felt responsible for replying with knowledge I have accumulated since Oslo in the early 90s, I spent calories that should have gone elsewhere. I only hope that by setting aside inconvenient truths we don’t exact a price.
True, but Biden doesn't get to pick his crises. He did a superb job with the crises we are facing.
Robert, Because the current crisis is situated within a larger context that was not acknowledged, Biden’s address, which, in my view, drew justifiable criticism, greatly concerned me. While Biden was not my pick either for 2020 or 2024, I, nonetheless continue to work tirelessly on his behalf. The only reason I posted is because I fear we dismiss controversy at our peril.
No, Barbara, I am not at all bothered by the lack of an analogy between Ukrainians and Palestinians. On the contrary, the “loose thread” for me is that the analogy between the Ukraine and Israel only goes so far. Putin wants Ukrainian land to be part of Russia. The dispute in the Middle East is not just territorial: Hamas’s stated purpose is to kill all Jews.
Carissa, To start, my understanding is that if Putin can’t have Ukraine, he plans to level it. As for Hamas, regrettably, relatively few people recall that, in April 2008, then-former President Jimmy Carter traveled to Gaza and extracted an agreement from Hamas for a ten-year truce and for recognition of a Palestinian state, upon Israel withdrawing to her 1967 pre-war borders. Because Carter was on an unofficial mission, the Bush Administration dismissed the negotiated settlement.
My point is that the conflict is the direct result of Israeli occupation, since 1967, of Palestinian land—the longest occupation in modern history. Were Israel to withdraw to its pre-war 1967 borders, the violence would end. Meanwhile, Palestinians continue to resist because, after 56 years of occupation, they see that this is the only path to self-determination.
First of all, Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005. They do not occupy those lands.
Second, it is naive to think that if Israel withdraws from it pre-war 1967 borders there will be peace. There wasn't peace before that.
Third, Palestinians could have had 95% of what they wanted in 2001. Instead they started an Intifada. They want it all. Hamas' goal, as well as Hezbollah, is to wipe Jews out.
Fourth, anti-Semitism is baked in to the tapestry of Western and Eastern Civilization.
Fifth, you have not heard some of the speakers I have heard in person. Yassar Arafat's chief legal counsel and the Syrian Ambassador who was recalled just a few months later because Syria was deemed a terrorist State. Both of them and more not only trash Jews and Israel but trash America. They were agitators
While the Palestinians have a humanitarian plight, a lot of this has been brought on them by 550 million Arabs who would not help refugees for the last 75 years.
To Ed's last point: There are two situations analagous to the Palestinians.
At the end of WW II, 2.2. million Germans were evicted from East Prussia, a province that had been almost exclusively German for over 1,000 years.
in 1947, as many as 10 million Hindus and Muslims were forced to leave their homes as a result of Partition of India.
In both cases, the populations were absorbed into the countries they fled to and 75 years later, no one is living in a refugee camp and Germany, like Israel, has a Right of Return for Germans living in regions from which they were expeled.
Ed, Replying to your first three points: 1) Gaza, likened to an open air prison, has no access to the outside world except through Israel, which controls 90% of its land and sea boundaries, and through Egypt, which has a narrow land border to the south. 2) If today you were to ask everyday Israelis and Palestinians what they want, you would learn they were seeking two very different freedoms. One seeking freedom from terror; the other seeking freedom from Israel. I have read / heard time and again that were Israel to withdraw to its pre-war 1967 borders, the violence would end. 3) The 2001 agreement would have delivered to Palestinians a West Bank that was non-contiguous. To be clear, a non-contiguous Palestinian state is one whose areas outside its enclaves are controlled by Israel.
>> I have read / heard time and again that were Israel to withdraw to its pre-war 1967 borders, the violence would end.>>
As my grandmother would say, "from your mouth to G-d's ears"
If only that had the vaguest hint of truth to it. It's hard to argue with someone whose responses are not based in reality.
See Robert's link about Hamas's real purpose.
Alan, I’m entirely familiar with the text Robert posted. I also am well-versed in the overall global response were Israel to remove its settlements from disputed territory. Accordingly, I don’t expect we’ll live to see a secure Israeli or Palestinian state unless some approximation of the 67 borders is agreed upon.
Hamas's stated mission is to kill and ellimnate all the Jews in Israel.
Period. Full Stop.
They agreed to whatever Carter asked precisely because they knew it would have no impact, that it was not an official agreement and carried no weight. Their current mission and everything that they put out in that regard makes it explicitly clear that they want the whole country and don't see a place for Jews in it.
As for your suggestion, withdrawing to the pre-67 borders is NOT what Hamas wants. They want the whole country.
There is a simple solution to the current crisis, one that would save the people of Gaza much hurt and suffering: Hamas releases all of the hostages.
.
Hi, Alan. To confirm your description of Hamas's purpose, see this description of its charter: https://embassies.gov.il/holysee/AboutIsrael/the-middle-east/Pages/The%20Hamas-Covenant.aspx#:~:text=The%20Hamas%20charter%20is%20the,18%20years%20of%20its%20existence.
Thank you for that Robert.
Hello Alan,
One more thing. It's probably going to sound like I've heard everybody or seen them...I have not.
But I have heard, seen, and talked with the Imam who built the Mosque at Ground Zero in NYC. We had him here in Missoula a few years back. The only questions he would field were those that were prewritten. However, in his lecture, he came right out and said that the Islam Quran is a correction of the Hebrew Bible. Isaac was not the sacrificial son. Ishmael was the sacrifice. Thus, their claim to be the true divine lineage of Abraham. They believe that they replace the Christian covenant with G-d. If the Imam's belief holds true throughout the Muslim world, then it just isn't the Jews that are "wrong" it is anyone who embraces any brand of Christianity.
I did talk with him afterwards and bought his book. It was a difficult read and I admit could not finish it.
I have my own thoughts and conclusions. I'll just let you draw yours.
Alan, First, release of the hostages, albeit critical, would not ensure Israel would restrain from further incursions into the region. Second, I would note that everyday Israeli and Palestinian people largely seek two very different freedoms. One wants freedom from terror; the other wants freedom from Israel. In my view, the greatest obstacle to peace is leadership on both sides locked into old ways of thinking.
Release of the hostages could be conditioned on Israel's agreement to stop bombing Gaza and Hamas's agreement to stop sending rockets and terrorists into Israel. Imagine if Hamas spent the money the Qataris gave them on actually deveoping their country and not on tunnels and missles.All sorts of wonderful things might happen like the Egyptians opening the Rafah crossing and allowing Gazans to work in Egypt. (Something the Israelis were already doing before Oct 7th.)
In terms of peace, step one is for the Palestinians to decide who is in charge, Fatah or Hamas. The two groups hate each other more than they hate the Israelis, one is supported by the Saudis, the other the Iranians, and it's all but impossible to make peace with a country in the midst of a civil war.
On the Israeli side, it seems very likely that Netanyahu and his right wing crazies will be voted out, they are being blamed for this across the entire political spectrum .
So that is a start, but there is a long way to go.
Alan, While you make some good points, I leave you with a question relative to your statement that Hamas could use the money the Qataris gave them to develop their country: Given that Gaza, likened to an open-air prison, has no access to the outside world except through Israel, which controls 90% of its land and sea boundaries, and through Egypt, which has a narrow land border to the south, how would that work?
Barbara intones, “Freedom from Israel” for Gaza. That is utterly ahistorical.
Without preconditions, Ariel Sharon’s government in Israel withdrew *all* occupying forces from Gaza. They left behind infrastructure that Gazans could use. Gazans destroyed that infrastructure.
There followed a struggle between Hamas and the Palestinian Authority for control of Gaza. Much was violent; Hamas won.
History shows that Gaza had “Freedom from Israel.” For years, *Hamas has used that “freedom” to attack Israel militarily* - rocket launches, for example, and a bestial invasion on October 7th.
“Freedom from Israel” has been a sham.
Michael, Quoting Reuters (October 12, 2023), “After its unilateral exit [in 2005], Israel imposed a temporary land, air, and sea blockade on Gaza, imposing curbs on exports, and severely restricting who could access the territory. Citing security concerns, the blockade became permanent from 2007 onward…”
The critical part is mutual respect, with that, we're working to resolve differences in order to have a cohesive policy that most of us support. Without that respect, we're just shouting at each other in the hope of getting press.
Dave, One reason for my original post was to convey the idea that intelligent and sincere people can have fundamental disagreements about complex matters, and that usually much more can be accomplished by trying to understand and accommodate the other position than by ignoring it or dismissing it. For me, the focus is on letting the other person know that she or he is being listened to and respected, even, I dare say, when being disagreed with or refuted.
A question a friend of mine asked me yesterday was “ there is a lot going on regarding Israel, the House debacle, Sidney Powell and a host of other stuff but does anyone really care or are we so numb and overwhelmed.? A question I have asked myself many times. Over the past few days President Biden has made several ground breaking and wonderful speeches that alone should convince all voters that he is the right person at the right moment for this country and to protect our democracy and we are very fortunate to have him in this role. But will it make a difference to some voters.? The Biden speeches should have been front and center in all media coverage because really what is more important our relationship with Israel and the protection against a horrendous attack or watching a clown fail again in pursuit of an office he is not qualified to hold? President Biden through actions and comments has demonstrated why he should be re-elected. and there is no political advertising campaign that could ever match his actual on the job performance. Hopefully slowly voters will come to realize Biden is the only choice going forward to provide the leadership our country demands.
Excellent post today Robert. Thank you.
Honestly, I'm dying of boredom of the GOP house mess. They're hopeless, will never be able to elect a speaker, there is no halfway sane person on the GOP side who WANTS the job, a handful are perfectly content to keep spinning the government wheels, and working with the Dems will never happen. Rinse and repeat. Yawn.
I just spent 20 minutes quickly leaving 24 voicemails to congresspeople who, thus far, are thumbs down on Jordan. At this time of day (before 8 a.m. ET), the calls go to VM. Although these are not my representatives, when asked to leave a zip code, I typically do--this is a national position, for goodness sake. Even calling 1-2-3 folks might make a difference. These 24 need encouragement, IMHO. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1j72YFTLHuen77-5W3ICea7xkLztpLkDatJG68qpRpRQ/edit?usp=sharing
Thanks for the reminder, Cathy. I just left another message for my representative, Mike Lawler.
Thanks for amplifying, Cathy!
Based on reported votes, there are somewhere between 30 and 80 Republicans who might be expected to support a compromise candidate and resolve the Speakership issue. Several, including Don Bacon, have spoken publicly about the idea and one wonders what they are waiting for.
Is there a mechanism by which a majority of the members could call the House into session absent the Speaker? It's time the Republicans stopped treating themselves as an unthinking 'caucus' and behave like the adults who most of their constituents thought they were electing.
Good question. I think the answer is "No," because of the rules of the House, which can't be amended in the absence of a Speaker . . . .
Even Fox. Last night Brit Hume said: "It may be remembered as one of the best, if not the best, speeches of his presidency."
https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1715169901726335305?s=20
Thanks for the link.