TFG may yet be indicted in one court or another, for one or another of a myriad of crimes. What is on trial now is the American justice system. Given overwhelming amount of evidence publicly available and who knows how much more as yet unrevealed, if we don't see a resolute march to justice pronto, the public will abandon any trust it has left in our system's will and capacity to prosecute the rich and powerful. How ironic, that a criminal destined for a special place in the annals of crime in this nation is actually putting the justice system on trial. So be it; its been a long time coming.
You're right on this one, Nathan. The justice system is, and should have been a long time ago, on trial. We live now on the edge of both possibilities and disaster. Our access to every moment and every detail of our balance on that edge means that there are no more individual events. As you point out even the possible prosecution of a former president is significant in proportion to the attention it calls to the whole system. Your final statement is, I'm afraid, what makes me shaky. The trial of our justice system hasn't just been a long time coming. It has been forever coming. It was not designed to administer justice with an even hand. We don't just have to put it on trial for its failures. We have to call it--and ourselves--to account for all those terrible successes. Am I being too grim?
No. I think you are correct. My hope is that governments can evolve over time. They can change for the betterment of the people. The book I'm reading called Viking Economics outlines how this has happened in Scandinavian countries which were a pretty ruthless group historically. They did change their societies to embrace a more egalitarian ideal.
Now they are facing new challenges as more immigrant populations enter their countries, but they are attempting to do this with equality as a goal. We humans will never be perfect because, as a former teacher of mine said, "perfect doesn't exist." But better does and that is worth fighting for.
I've been writing about uppity bible women all day and am just finally looking at emails. You've really got me pondering this. For some reason I never think of the Scandinavian countries in their historical context like this. Of course, they were pretty terrible.. Ruthless might be too mild a word. I'm going to do a bit of reading here. Thank you. I needed a good new idea for my evening. One of the joys of these Substack communities is the intelligence of the comments communities they inspire. I love people who know more than I do!!
And are you ready for this? A historical account would find official British origins (as in William, Conqueror) hardly less ruthless, perhaps, made mad, even moreso. And despite the admittedly biased ameliorating or at least explanatory narratives 600 years later in public drama under the watch of the Blair-Bush duo it may now get even worse.
Britain’s next prime minister Liz Truss says she is ready for global nuclear annihilation
Liz Truss, foreign secretary and most likely the next Conservative prime minister of the UK, has declared that she would launch a nuclear strike on Russia, even though the result would be "global annihilation.
"Beneath the Planet of the Apes" should be the required viewing for our time - of course after "Don't Look Up."
I haven't been quite ready for anything in the last ten years or so, but I keep on trying--with the occasional lapse into rage or depression, or whining. I agree with your move recommendations.
Not too grim....but raising an important question for me. If our justice system "was not designed to administer justice with an even hand" then what exactly is "the rule of law" that needs to be upheld? I've been wondering how the "alw and order party" has managed to grow so many "outlaws." What's the difference between going outside the rule of law because one is a criminal and doing so because the system is unjust?
Here I am, chiming in better than never, to say, heck, I don't know. I'm reading back over my hastily composed comment--written between the departure of my grandson and another day of arm-wrestling with the horrifying (and obvious) discovery that there is a difference between teaching a subject and writing about it.
I skipped a step in my comment, I think. Our justice system was, in fact, designed to run by the rule of law--in writing. But, the fact is that it was not designed to guarantee it would actually, in practice, do what its words said. And, further, the men who wrote those words had, as far as I can read, no intention of any such thing as the administration of justice with an even hand. Of course it was a different world, and of course they could not have envisioned the issues on the table today, and one hopes they wanted a document that could be flexible in the centuries to come. But, they didn't make that clear in their fine documents and perhaps they also didn't imagine the ruthlessness of those who have been quietly massing on our borders--those inside our halls of government--and have now descended like the jackals they are.
It's all there, in writing. We have a basically solid system--of justice and of government. I haven't seen much that couldn't be fixed or tweaked. The problem, in my limited experience, is that we don't, in Wendell Berry's phrase, "stand by our words."
And Carl Jung said it we don't acknowledge and embrace our shadow selves they will turn right around and bite us in our collective ass.
One thing Mr. Biden said just after Jan. 6 that rattled me was, "This isn't who we are." It made me want to scream. It is who we are, just as much as the heroism and caring in the wake of 9-11 is who we are. I know I sometimes come across as pessimistic and bitter. I don't think I'm either. What I am is a possibly over-heated believer that if we are to make any progress we must embrace all of who we are, good and not so good.
I will close with my usual quote from Pogo, Earth Day 1971, "'We have met the enemy and he is us."
And, Chaplain Terry Nicholetti, if you can make sense of this ramble I salute you.
I think you nailed it. We have to look at both our sides and choose which we want to become--which seeds we want to water. I see it as the difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. We are fluid beings and flawed beings. But I believe we can become better beings, but we have to try. We have to see trying to behave, rather than doing stuff because you can get away with it or because "everybody else does," as the requirement for good citizenship, no matter what your religious or political leanings. We have to want, structure, shape, and then live up to it. And it won't be easy. But that is okay because there are lots of people who like being challenged. Let's hope there are enough of them to make a difference. When Joe Biden says, "That's not who we are," that's how he feels inside. I see that as a call to do better, not as a statement of fact, but a future
I've always acted on the principle of "What the heck else do I have planned for Saturday night?" That attitude pretty much kept me out on the streets making good trouble for about three decades (you can say stuff like that when you're older than dirt). Of course, I'm not serious about my lack of seriousness--I tend to be irreverent about the things that are most sacred. It doesn't matter if I don't feel encouraged. Actually my feelings have very little to do with it. It's my actions that are relevant. As a friend says, "If I waited until I feel like mowing the lawn, the lawn wouldn't get mowed". I belong to an organization whose guiding principle is that I can act my way into right thinking. And I do.
Yes, and for me at least, it isn't a question of choosing one or the other. They are me. Jung's use of the word "shadow" just refers to that part of me that I keep hidden or that isn't always visible our obvious, but if I am to be a whole person then I have to embrace and sort of welcome into myself every bit of me. That doesn't mean I'm choosing the darkness. I'm only acknowledging it and inviting it in. It's in already but shunned. I suppose I believe that we learn from our darkness just as we learn from the light. And there is nothing more beautiful than the interplay of sun and shadow on a "partly cloudy" day.
That's a good question. There's a book that was recommended to me by a lawyer called Just Mercy, by Brian Stevenson. I haven't read it yet, but I think it might help answer that question. I hope so anyway.
Brian Stevenson is an amazing human being working out of Alabama. He started there defending black men falsely incarcerated. Arguing and winning a few before the Supreme Court. I highly recommend reading him.
Kim, Do you know where he is in Alabama. That state always surprises me. I was born in Montgomery and grew up in a small town in north Georgia. I still have a passel of cousins in Alabama, though, always spent summers there, and was around when Morris Dees and Julian Bond were starting the Southern Poverty Law Center. I don't know about Brian Stevenson, but I'll be finding out. Who would have imagined the Lynching Museum? It boggles the mind.
He runs the equal justice initiative in Montgomery AL. Yes his lynching monument is truly an emotional powerhouse. I first read about him a few years ago in an Atlantic article, but I believe he is 65 now so he’s been working in relative obscurity at least to the rest of us.
Hi I just found the movie on Prime. So I just need to ask in preparation. I'm a survivor of childhood trauma and I mostly avoid any films (even really good ones) that have any scenes of people getting beat up or tortured because I get triggered and it's just too hard to go through. But if it's a really good film that I really want to see, and I know in advance what to expect, I can prepare instead of just being so anxious while watching . (apologies for TMI, but this one looks worth it) So, do you remember if there's anything like that? The summary sounds like it could be. Thanks! https://www.amazon.com/Just-Mercy-Michael-B-Jordan/dp/B082YJ8THX
Sorry, but I can’t remember. Emphasis was on people jailed for outrageous reasons, useless public defenders, corrupt prosecutors, etc. Bryan’s determination and stamina to fix things, case by case. Though he was portrayed by an actor, Bryan S. Spoke at the end. For me, watching way too many movies, I can’t remember details with certainty.
I am so honored and excited to be a part of this conversation, Susan and Dean (could I just clarify if that is your first name, like my uncle dean, or your title?)
I'm preparing for my spiritual community service (actually I'm getting ready for church, but that word is now so loaded for me!), so I will take time after to absorb and respond. But for now, I find great hope in these ideas!
Not sure if you get notified when I respond to Susan's comment in this thread, so I'm cc'ing you below. Also, just to clarify, I spell Terry with a 'Y" but I "enjoy being a girl" to quote from one of my favorite (albeit somewhat sexist!) fifties broadway show tunes!
QUOTE from my response to Susan's last comment:
I am so honored and excited to be a part of this conversation, Susan and Dean (could I just clarify if that is your first name, like my uncle dean, or your title?)
I'm preparing for my spiritual community service (actually I'm getting ready for church, but that word is now so loaded for me!), so I will take time after to absorb and respond. But for now, I find great hope in these ideas!
I think this is the crux of the American caste system brought over by the immigrants who were supposedly running away from persecution, only to inflict the same persecution on to the First Peoples of America, and build this country on the backs of slaves and other ethnicities they felt superior over. The Reckoning has come. It is year 2022. Our core issue is our ignorant people who created a Constitution that stated All Men Are Created equal...they left out WHITE. They have awakened the sleeping ones, and it is time to edit our Constitution and extremists who think they are deserving of an authoritarian state. WE THE PEOPLE DO NOT THINK SO.
Thank you. And this remarkably determined refusal to even look at that history of darkness--which is not some one-off deal but is what we did over centuries--that belligerent and fear-grounded claim that we are all light and goodness--that is what I'm talking about that always infuriates some people. We are also culpable. We have remained silent over generations. And when we reject the terrible behavior of, say, racism, it's as if we are rejecting some outer thing, amputating some alien growth. That is not going to work. IMHO this is essential. Same old thing from me POGO Earth Day 1971 "We have met the enemy and he is us."
Nathan you are right that the core of government, the Department of Justice is on trial. It is because of situations like this that the DOJ was created.
But I'll go one up on you, Nathan. I think what is on trial is our form of government. Are we or are we not a democratically formed Republic? Do the majority of Americans support and defend the Constitution or not? Do we choose to be united, or do we seek division?
Ultimately for a democratic form of government to succeed, the majority must first care and then coalesce around what is best for the common good.
What I see in America is a people enslaved to a system that encourages dog-eat-dog survival behavior. Most people are looking out for themselves. It is extraordinary how self-serving almost everyone has become. At the root of this is a political system that thrives on encouraging tribalism and exploiting personal grievances.
I hope the DOJ comes through and I hope the military is our final backstop but I'm not banking on it.
I agree with most of what you say, but not that everyone has become self serving. Of course, it's our personal responsibility to look out for our own welfare, but I see many more who also look out for others. It's obvious that TFG empowered the racists, misogynists and those with egocentric behavior, but they are not representative of our majority by a long shot. They just get a lot of air time by MSM as they push forward with that which they feel will boost their ratings.
Similarly here in Australia, a proto-Trumpian ex prime minister has been exposed for undermining our democracy. In this case it was called a ministerial ‘power-creep’. If you want to preserve your democracy, you need to charge them, investigate them and prosecute them. The political cancer must be eliminated.
It certainly would solve a lot of problems, and is cheaper in the longterm. I am getting there myself. In America, anti-Americans threatened to hang our Vice President and other officials and had their gallows built at the ready. I have suggested we save it for their justice. I am done. Enough. Consequences stops bullies and bad behavior. It is time for good people around the world to deal with the global cabal of white supremacist extremists who want to take over the world and her resources—at all costs. Time for a swift push heard around the world for these extremist mobsters.
Aug 27, 2022·edited Aug 27, 2022Liked by Robert B. Hubbell
I am delighting in the irony that a man who doesn’t read and doesn’t appreciate history will (hopefully) be done in by librarians and archivists. I worry though that there could be copies or photos of these documents stored on phones or computers. And, he could have disclosed the contents of the documents already.
I relish the fact the librarians and archivists are the ones who cracked the door wide open…and in this hyper-virtual world I think these files are now everywhere!
How many years has he and his coterie of money grubbers been selling out America? Just before he was installed, he told russia not to sorry about sanctions once he was in. Then we have photos of russian representatives laughing it up with him IN OUR OVAL OFFICE. It is one of the rare times you see the orange flambé actually laughing.
Here we have a fully documented and obvious crime. Top secret documents have been stolen and found. The owner of the home makes no declaration of innocence. Instead he claims he has a right to the documents.
If I were the former store manager of a home improvement center (still got my keys and security code) and I had backed up a truck and removed a few pallets of power tools...and those tools were found in my garage...would I simply be able to claim ownership? And walk free?
It is a simple dereliction of duty on the part of the DOJ that this person who has undeniably stolen top secret documents is still a free man. Every day he is allowed the opportunity to talk with another human being is a potential risk to our national security and perhaps a threat to the lives of those who work for us in the intelligence sector. TFG should be in a locked down isolation cell yesterday.
There is no defense. The crime is established. Screw the political backlash. Enforce the law.
I would love to see Barack Obama, George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, and Jimmy Carter speak out about documents in the homes of former Presidents. I caught a snippet of Joe Biden this morning discussing the protocol of a sitting President taking documents home to review…it was very specific and guarded and he was disgusted.
Yesterday, reports were that he had also made notations on some of these documents. That would indicate he might have actually read them. Those notations could be instructive to DOJ, especially if they indicate any potential use or any prior use for them. I am wondering if by marking them up, he also committed a crime. The fact that he touched them, took them, kept them, allowed various and sundry to enter the storage room, go through the boxes, move items from one box to another and all caught on surveillance video should be enough to put him away for the rest of his sorry life.
"fully documented and obvious crime" [coverup] of an even greater crime due to permanent ERASURE of documents that is superseded solely because of a supposed prior patriotic career.
Given #45’s problematic relationships with Ukraine and NATO, does it strike anyone else as curious that a year after he left the White House with untold pages of classified documents, his good friend Putin launched an unprovoked attack on Ukraine, cheered on by #45, obviously assuming that NATO and the US would let him get away with it?
Good observation/question. DJT was Putin’s puppet. That was obvious in Finland when he told the world he trusted Putin more than US Intelligence. He was then and remains now, a danger to our country’s security.
This may be a little too spy thriller to be true, but what if there was a whole lot of garbage intel purposely put in the files with the assumption DJT the creep would try to sell it?
I’ve been hoping that very thing ever since this started. TFG was known for being careless (and possibly worse) with intelligence, with some reports that a number of CIA assets abroad were mysteriously compromised a couple of years ago. Purposely altered intelligence documents with poison pills that would point back to the person(s) releasing them seems like a logical and practical thing for intelligence agencies to do when in doubt.
Overall, I think public speculation about the various types of harm TFG could accomplish would be helpful in pointing out the seriousness of the actions we already know about. How do we know he has had copies made? Hasn’t already shown them to bad actors in exchange for: Money? Protection? Ego gratification? Potential exile?
I don’t envy the task before our various intelligence agencies. How do you even begin to assess the harm done?
I was hoping Obama had done just that when they met during the transition and T looked like such a stooge. So if I had thought of it, people WAY smarter than I am did too.
The documents might reveal that he was ready to ignore the invasion rather than rally NATO support. And maybe that hotel in Moscow would finally be built :)
Really? Like negotiating with my neighbor over whether or not he can take my property because I’m not a real person? There is zero excuse for what Putin has inflicted on Ukraine.
No, whether or not you have to suffer from preventable destruction (massive armament transfer - its not peaceful stuff) fostered (or festered) by a balding tow-headed drunk frat-boy wannabe cretin saying "negotiation is off the table, we [Joe and I, and Nancy and Chuck] make the rules." When your neighbor moves to train the cannon power on you if you touch a leaf for standing up for 8 years of dying, you might wanna provide some assistance until he backs away.
The specifics in the affidavit seem enough to indict Trump. However, Section 7 - Source of Evidence - hints there is more to come in the second sentence , "Because this affidavit is submitted for the limited purpose of establishing probable cause in support of the application for a search warrant, it does not set forth each and every fact that I, or others, have learned during the course of this investigation." Those facts may lead to more trouble for Trump and his accolades than just illegal record retention and obstruction - perhaps monetizing their value for personal gain.
I have a feeling that as revelations come out of the DOJ, there are at least a few seasoned Republicans who are getting antsy over the fealty they and their colleagues have lavished on DJT for the last 6 years. He has always been an immoral and conniving narcissist but now that it is being revealed that he put himself in a position of actual harm, I think, at least i pray, that these seasoned members of the GOP are thinking about jumping ship. I'd have thought Mitt Romney would be in the vanguard but he has certainly been put in an awkward box by his niece Ronna McDaniel who seems to have gone full-on MAGA.
Last night I watched #2 GQP Senator John Thune squirm and squirm under questioning by Amna Nawaz. The "Romney types" are splitting hairs and threading tiny needles while avoiding the plain facts in front of their noses. Their leader is a crook who may be guilty of multiple crimes including espionage. Watching these squirmers is embarrassing and their discomfort is revealing.
The Romney types are the most loathesome of all. You’re tricked into thinking they have principles sometimes and just when you think you can count on them they show you they’re just political opportunists and always have been. Romney is one of the worst. A vote to impeach but “no” on the voting rights bill? I mean, come on.
Not sure I'm with you on that. I'd take Romney over and over rather than Josh Hawley, Tom Cotton, or Ron Johnson. Or Lindsey Graham since he seems to have no principles at all that survive the next election cycle - he offends me particularly because he used to be such a good friend of McCain's.
I’d venture to say Graham was a opportunist with McCain, just riding along on his coattails. He is a chameleon. And I am sorry, you might remember Romney went hat in hand kissing up to Trump because he wanted to be his Secretary of State. I do not like taking a broad brush approach to all Republicans but they have certainly shown themselves to be cowards or willing to walk away and write a book, make money appearing on TV, etc. Cheney has been true to her commitment to the rule of law. We can celebrate her for that but remember her policy thinking is be different.
Hawley, Cotton, Graham, Johnson, Jordan et al are consistent and predictable. They show who they are at every opportunity. But slimy worms like Romney are worse because they are unpredictable and you’ll never know when their principled side will appear. Flipping from principled to unprincipled seems far more devious and dangerous to me.
My opinion: they have found themselves too deeply involved to turn away. They enabled him way too long and made themselves vulnerable with an arrogance that they could pull off the lies and BS.
There isn’t a prison large enough for what has always felt to me to be way more than just Trump and some of his administration. Remember the line, “"Just say that the election was corrupt + leave the rest to me and the R. Congressmen," Trump speaking to Acting Attorney General Rosen and acting deputy AG, Richard Donoghue: https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/30/politics/trump-election-justice/index.html
A thought has occurred to me regarding those "seasoned Republicans" - especially the ones who make frequent trips to Mar a Lago to play golf and especially those whose blather turned 180 degrees after the J6 attempted coup. There has been some speculation that among those classified documents might be "blackmail" material on certain members of the GOP. But I wonder if the "blackmail" might be that he actually showed them some of these classified documents, which they would KNOW to have been illegally taken, and therefore put them in the "awkward box" of either taking his side in all matters or going against him and reporting to DOJ what they had seen or knew about. Either way, they were caught in a trap - be complicit or be damned.
Mitt Romney has been given way more credit than he deserves for pro-democracy behavior. He has mostly complied w/ Mitch McConnell's instructions for voting, issues, etc. He is no saint.
Aug 27, 2022·edited Aug 27, 2022Liked by Robert B. Hubbell
The Justice Department just played out one more way Trump planned to overturn the 2020 election and ruin free and fair elections. He is still the president and is allowed to do whatever he wants. He is not just stealing the 2020 election but stealing American democracy.
I just read the warrant application. I have a new appreciation for AG Garland and the Justice Department. It is clear that they have to get Trump dead to right or they will not be able to bring any indictment against him. They have done that. They gave him tons of rope by dragging out attempts to get these documents, giving him multiple opportunities to lie, cover up, ultimately because he, as president, can do whatever he wants because he is above the law.
With the release of this application, the only defense Trump and his supporters can now have is that he should be above the law. There is no Bill Bahr there to lie about what the warrant application contains. There is only OAN, Brightbart and Fox News that can help him proclaim that he should be above the law.
The application sets out each law that was violated, each thing ((element) that they need to prove to find Trump guilty of violating that law, and the evidence they have they believe proves that element.
The evidence that supports each element of law violation:
1. There is extensive discussion that the items found in the set of documents that Trump first turned over contains presidential records as well as classified documents;
2. They set out evidence that there are more documents stored at Trump's residence that had not been turned over, their attempts to get the documents still at Mara Lago, and the responses from Trump's attorneys.
During this period, they explain how they gave Trump ample opportunity to hang himself: he admitted that he had documents in violation of law, obstructed their ability to get those documents by lying, stating that he is above the law, and getting his news organizations to state that he is above the law, and by ginning up his base to attack (physically) law enforcement if they intend to enforce the law against him.
You can bet that a part of the next set of January 6 hearings will include his continued assertion that he is the lawful president, that he has the right to violate laws; that law enforcement has no right to investigate or prosecute him.
As I said, I have a new appreciation for AG Garland the the DOJ.
I send great hugs to you, your wife, your daughter, and your family, and I send congratulations and best wishes for a glorious wedding celebration and blessings on the couple. May their lives be long and filled with love, joy and wonderment.
Not just Russia. I'm more concerned about our friends, the Saudis. Pompeo and Kushner made quite a bit of $ while "serving" in their positions. I have no doubt they are both involved in this.
I like the fiesty Joe. Gloves off Joe and the Democrats. Time to take the fight to the Rethuglican party. These people are a threat to Democracy. I will break out a bottle of champagne when Trump is behind bars. We should not be afraid of prosecuting him and those who are trying to destroy our government.
I myself have been enjoying Fetterman trolling Oz, and Newsom videos posted to Truth Social (there are three of them). The gloves are off! Glad to hear President Biden has come out swinging.
"Trump’s apologists might want to disentangle themselves from him before they thoroughly embarrass themselves." From Jennifer Rubin's column; I'd say it's a bit late for that now. If they're not thoroughly embarrassed at this point, they never will be and it's clear that some will go down with the ship if/when it is finally sunk.
As you wrote, “it is a bit late for that now….” I’d venture to say, there is more than “embarrassment” they might be thinking about. I hope they have gone off to the forest for a quite weekend to let these matters sink in with some reflection time.
Congratulations Mr. Hubbell. Forget about politics for a few days. Believe it or not, those people are about to lose badly. Relax and enjoy your family. You deserve it.
Dear Attorney General Garland: When you are done with Trump, please move on to Bill Barr. There will be no true justice until he and his DOJ lackeys are called to account for their willful shell game with the truth about Russian collusion.
TFG may yet be indicted in one court or another, for one or another of a myriad of crimes. What is on trial now is the American justice system. Given overwhelming amount of evidence publicly available and who knows how much more as yet unrevealed, if we don't see a resolute march to justice pronto, the public will abandon any trust it has left in our system's will and capacity to prosecute the rich and powerful. How ironic, that a criminal destined for a special place in the annals of crime in this nation is actually putting the justice system on trial. So be it; its been a long time coming.
You're right on this one, Nathan. The justice system is, and should have been a long time ago, on trial. We live now on the edge of both possibilities and disaster. Our access to every moment and every detail of our balance on that edge means that there are no more individual events. As you point out even the possible prosecution of a former president is significant in proportion to the attention it calls to the whole system. Your final statement is, I'm afraid, what makes me shaky. The trial of our justice system hasn't just been a long time coming. It has been forever coming. It was not designed to administer justice with an even hand. We don't just have to put it on trial for its failures. We have to call it--and ourselves--to account for all those terrible successes. Am I being too grim?
No. I think you are correct. My hope is that governments can evolve over time. They can change for the betterment of the people. The book I'm reading called Viking Economics outlines how this has happened in Scandinavian countries which were a pretty ruthless group historically. They did change their societies to embrace a more egalitarian ideal.
Now they are facing new challenges as more immigrant populations enter their countries, but they are attempting to do this with equality as a goal. We humans will never be perfect because, as a former teacher of mine said, "perfect doesn't exist." But better does and that is worth fighting for.
I've been writing about uppity bible women all day and am just finally looking at emails. You've really got me pondering this. For some reason I never think of the Scandinavian countries in their historical context like this. Of course, they were pretty terrible.. Ruthless might be too mild a word. I'm going to do a bit of reading here. Thank you. I needed a good new idea for my evening. One of the joys of these Substack communities is the intelligence of the comments communities they inspire. I love people who know more than I do!!
I have learned so much on the Substack forums!! There are so many knowledgeable, well read people who participate.
cary
2 min ago
And are you ready for this? A historical account would find official British origins (as in William, Conqueror) hardly less ruthless, perhaps, made mad, even moreso. And despite the admittedly biased ameliorating or at least explanatory narratives 600 years later in public drama under the watch of the Blair-Bush duo it may now get even worse.
Are you ready for this?
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/08/26/jfvn-a26.html?
Britain’s next prime minister Liz Truss says she is ready for global nuclear annihilation
Liz Truss, foreign secretary and most likely the next Conservative prime minister of the UK, has declared that she would launch a nuclear strike on Russia, even though the result would be "global annihilation.
"Beneath the Planet of the Apes" should be the required viewing for our time - of course after "Don't Look Up."
I haven't been quite ready for anything in the last ten years or so, but I keep on trying--with the occasional lapse into rage or depression, or whining. I agree with your move recommendations.
"Thoughtful rather than alarmed" - there's too much to be alarmed about to not be thoughtful.
Susan you may have begun my answer to the question I just asked Dean Robertson. thank you!
😊
Not too grim....but raising an important question for me. If our justice system "was not designed to administer justice with an even hand" then what exactly is "the rule of law" that needs to be upheld? I've been wondering how the "alw and order party" has managed to grow so many "outlaws." What's the difference between going outside the rule of law because one is a criminal and doing so because the system is unjust?
Here I am, chiming in better than never, to say, heck, I don't know. I'm reading back over my hastily composed comment--written between the departure of my grandson and another day of arm-wrestling with the horrifying (and obvious) discovery that there is a difference between teaching a subject and writing about it.
I skipped a step in my comment, I think. Our justice system was, in fact, designed to run by the rule of law--in writing. But, the fact is that it was not designed to guarantee it would actually, in practice, do what its words said. And, further, the men who wrote those words had, as far as I can read, no intention of any such thing as the administration of justice with an even hand. Of course it was a different world, and of course they could not have envisioned the issues on the table today, and one hopes they wanted a document that could be flexible in the centuries to come. But, they didn't make that clear in their fine documents and perhaps they also didn't imagine the ruthlessness of those who have been quietly massing on our borders--those inside our halls of government--and have now descended like the jackals they are.
It's all there, in writing. We have a basically solid system--of justice and of government. I haven't seen much that couldn't be fixed or tweaked. The problem, in my limited experience, is that we don't, in Wendell Berry's phrase, "stand by our words."
And Carl Jung said it we don't acknowledge and embrace our shadow selves they will turn right around and bite us in our collective ass.
One thing Mr. Biden said just after Jan. 6 that rattled me was, "This isn't who we are." It made me want to scream. It is who we are, just as much as the heroism and caring in the wake of 9-11 is who we are. I know I sometimes come across as pessimistic and bitter. I don't think I'm either. What I am is a possibly over-heated believer that if we are to make any progress we must embrace all of who we are, good and not so good.
I will close with my usual quote from Pogo, Earth Day 1971, "'We have met the enemy and he is us."
And, Chaplain Terry Nicholetti, if you can make sense of this ramble I salute you.
I think you nailed it. We have to look at both our sides and choose which we want to become--which seeds we want to water. I see it as the difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. We are fluid beings and flawed beings. But I believe we can become better beings, but we have to try. We have to see trying to behave, rather than doing stuff because you can get away with it or because "everybody else does," as the requirement for good citizenship, no matter what your religious or political leanings. We have to want, structure, shape, and then live up to it. And it won't be easy. But that is okay because there are lots of people who like being challenged. Let's hope there are enough of them to make a difference. When Joe Biden says, "That's not who we are," that's how he feels inside. I see that as a call to do better, not as a statement of fact, but a future
worth embracing. It's a long shot.
I've always acted on the principle of "What the heck else do I have planned for Saturday night?" That attitude pretty much kept me out on the streets making good trouble for about three decades (you can say stuff like that when you're older than dirt). Of course, I'm not serious about my lack of seriousness--I tend to be irreverent about the things that are most sacred. It doesn't matter if I don't feel encouraged. Actually my feelings have very little to do with it. It's my actions that are relevant. As a friend says, "If I waited until I feel like mowing the lawn, the lawn wouldn't get mowed". I belong to an organization whose guiding principle is that I can act my way into right thinking. And I do.
I like your post.
Thanks for your insightful response.
😊
Yes! Beautiful lily said!
YES. We have to be willing to look at our shadow sides. Apropos quotes!
Yes, and for me at least, it isn't a question of choosing one or the other. They are me. Jung's use of the word "shadow" just refers to that part of me that I keep hidden or that isn't always visible our obvious, but if I am to be a whole person then I have to embrace and sort of welcome into myself every bit of me. That doesn't mean I'm choosing the darkness. I'm only acknowledging it and inviting it in. It's in already but shunned. I suppose I believe that we learn from our darkness just as we learn from the light. And there is nothing more beautiful than the interplay of sun and shadow on a "partly cloudy" day.
That's a good question. There's a book that was recommended to me by a lawyer called Just Mercy, by Brian Stevenson. I haven't read it yet, but I think it might help answer that question. I hope so anyway.
Brian Stevenson is an amazing human being working out of Alabama. He started there defending black men falsely incarcerated. Arguing and winning a few before the Supreme Court. I highly recommend reading him.
Wow! That's a wonderful recommendation. I'm off to the library now to check it out.
Kim, Do you know where he is in Alabama. That state always surprises me. I was born in Montgomery and grew up in a small town in north Georgia. I still have a passel of cousins in Alabama, though, always spent summers there, and was around when Morris Dees and Julian Bond were starting the Southern Poverty Law Center. I don't know about Brian Stevenson, but I'll be finding out. Who would have imagined the Lynching Museum? It boggles the mind.
Anyway, thank you for the tip.
He runs the equal justice initiative in Montgomery AL. Yes his lynching monument is truly an emotional powerhouse. I first read about him a few years ago in an Atlantic article, but I believe he is 65 now so he’s been working in relative obscurity at least to the rest of us.
Read it soon. It’s wonderful. There was a movie also.
Hi I just found the movie on Prime. So I just need to ask in preparation. I'm a survivor of childhood trauma and I mostly avoid any films (even really good ones) that have any scenes of people getting beat up or tortured because I get triggered and it's just too hard to go through. But if it's a really good film that I really want to see, and I know in advance what to expect, I can prepare instead of just being so anxious while watching . (apologies for TMI, but this one looks worth it) So, do you remember if there's anything like that? The summary sounds like it could be. Thanks! https://www.amazon.com/Just-Mercy-Michael-B-Jordan/dp/B082YJ8THX
Sorry, but I can’t remember. Emphasis was on people jailed for outrageous reasons, useless public defenders, corrupt prosecutors, etc. Bryan’s determination and stamina to fix things, case by case. Though he was portrayed by an actor, Bryan S. Spoke at the end. For me, watching way too many movies, I can’t remember details with certainty.
I use the IMDB Parent's Guide for this.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4916630/parentalguide?ref_=tt_stry_pg
Thanks for the encouragement. I'll put an order out to the library today! Cheers. Susan
I am so honored and excited to be a part of this conversation, Susan and Dean (could I just clarify if that is your first name, like my uncle dean, or your title?)
I'm preparing for my spiritual community service (actually I'm getting ready for church, but that word is now so loaded for me!), so I will take time after to absorb and respond. But for now, I find great hope in these ideas!
thank God. I just sent the good Chaplain a reply so long and so confused that it will probably send him to bed.
Not sure if you get notified when I respond to Susan's comment in this thread, so I'm cc'ing you below. Also, just to clarify, I spell Terry with a 'Y" but I "enjoy being a girl" to quote from one of my favorite (albeit somewhat sexist!) fifties broadway show tunes!
QUOTE from my response to Susan's last comment:
I am so honored and excited to be a part of this conversation, Susan and Dean (could I just clarify if that is your first name, like my uncle dean, or your title?)
I'm preparing for my spiritual community service (actually I'm getting ready for church, but that word is now so loaded for me!), so I will take time after to absorb and respond. But for now, I find great hope in these ideas!
I think this is the crux of the American caste system brought over by the immigrants who were supposedly running away from persecution, only to inflict the same persecution on to the First Peoples of America, and build this country on the backs of slaves and other ethnicities they felt superior over. The Reckoning has come. It is year 2022. Our core issue is our ignorant people who created a Constitution that stated All Men Are Created equal...they left out WHITE. They have awakened the sleeping ones, and it is time to edit our Constitution and extremists who think they are deserving of an authoritarian state. WE THE PEOPLE DO NOT THINK SO.
Thank you. And this remarkably determined refusal to even look at that history of darkness--which is not some one-off deal but is what we did over centuries--that belligerent and fear-grounded claim that we are all light and goodness--that is what I'm talking about that always infuriates some people. We are also culpable. We have remained silent over generations. And when we reject the terrible behavior of, say, racism, it's as if we are rejecting some outer thing, amputating some alien growth. That is not going to work. IMHO this is essential. Same old thing from me POGO Earth Day 1971 "We have met the enemy and he is us."
Thanks, Pensa
Bravo for your insight on this very troubling episode in our country’s history.
Nathan you are right that the core of government, the Department of Justice is on trial. It is because of situations like this that the DOJ was created.
But I'll go one up on you, Nathan. I think what is on trial is our form of government. Are we or are we not a democratically formed Republic? Do the majority of Americans support and defend the Constitution or not? Do we choose to be united, or do we seek division?
Ultimately for a democratic form of government to succeed, the majority must first care and then coalesce around what is best for the common good.
What I see in America is a people enslaved to a system that encourages dog-eat-dog survival behavior. Most people are looking out for themselves. It is extraordinary how self-serving almost everyone has become. At the root of this is a political system that thrives on encouraging tribalism and exploiting personal grievances.
I hope the DOJ comes through and I hope the military is our final backstop but I'm not banking on it.
I agree with most of what you say, but not that everyone has become self serving. Of course, it's our personal responsibility to look out for our own welfare, but I see many more who also look out for others. It's obvious that TFG empowered the racists, misogynists and those with egocentric behavior, but they are not representative of our majority by a long shot. They just get a lot of air time by MSM as they push forward with that which they feel will boost their ratings.
Well said!
Similarly here in Australia, a proto-Trumpian ex prime minister has been exposed for undermining our democracy. In this case it was called a ministerial ‘power-creep’. If you want to preserve your democracy, you need to charge them, investigate them and prosecute them. The political cancer must be eliminated.
Charge, prosecute, sentence, prison. I myself prefer the old method of treatment for traitors.
La Guillotine is the old method. In a Republic removing heads is acceptable.
It certainly would solve a lot of problems, and is cheaper in the longterm. I am getting there myself. In America, anti-Americans threatened to hang our Vice President and other officials and had their gallows built at the ready. I have suggested we save it for their justice. I am done. Enough. Consequences stops bullies and bad behavior. It is time for good people around the world to deal with the global cabal of white supremacist extremists who want to take over the world and her resources—at all costs. Time for a swift push heard around the world for these extremist mobsters.
I am delighting in the irony that a man who doesn’t read and doesn’t appreciate history will (hopefully) be done in by librarians and archivists. I worry though that there could be copies or photos of these documents stored on phones or computers. And, he could have disclosed the contents of the documents already.
I relish the fact the librarians and archivists are the ones who cracked the door wide open…and in this hyper-virtual world I think these files are now everywhere!
Disclosed? Try SOLD.
And what's done is done. Worrying won't undo it. All we can do is take steps that such activity is not repeated. Maybe that's impossible.
How many years has he and his coterie of money grubbers been selling out America? Just before he was installed, he told russia not to sorry about sanctions once he was in. Then we have photos of russian representatives laughing it up with him IN OUR OVAL OFFICE. It is one of the rare times you see the orange flambé actually laughing.
Here we have a fully documented and obvious crime. Top secret documents have been stolen and found. The owner of the home makes no declaration of innocence. Instead he claims he has a right to the documents.
If I were the former store manager of a home improvement center (still got my keys and security code) and I had backed up a truck and removed a few pallets of power tools...and those tools were found in my garage...would I simply be able to claim ownership? And walk free?
It is a simple dereliction of duty on the part of the DOJ that this person who has undeniably stolen top secret documents is still a free man. Every day he is allowed the opportunity to talk with another human being is a potential risk to our national security and perhaps a threat to the lives of those who work for us in the intelligence sector. TFG should be in a locked down isolation cell yesterday.
There is no defense. The crime is established. Screw the political backlash. Enforce the law.
I would love to see Barack Obama, George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, and Jimmy Carter speak out about documents in the homes of former Presidents. I caught a snippet of Joe Biden this morning discussing the protocol of a sitting President taking documents home to review…it was very specific and guarded and he was disgusted.
Yesterday, reports were that he had also made notations on some of these documents. That would indicate he might have actually read them. Those notations could be instructive to DOJ, especially if they indicate any potential use or any prior use for them. I am wondering if by marking them up, he also committed a crime. The fact that he touched them, took them, kept them, allowed various and sundry to enter the storage room, go through the boxes, move items from one box to another and all caught on surveillance video should be enough to put him away for the rest of his sorry life.
Wouldn’t it be great if he was water boarded first though?
Wouldn't it be hysterical if they were notes "Reminders to Self" on who might be interested in the content therein.
Who read them and WHO wrote those notes?
"fully documented and obvious crime" [coverup] of an even greater crime due to permanent ERASURE of documents that is superseded solely because of a supposed prior patriotic career.
YES! You had me at hello!
Given #45’s problematic relationships with Ukraine and NATO, does it strike anyone else as curious that a year after he left the White House with untold pages of classified documents, his good friend Putin launched an unprovoked attack on Ukraine, cheered on by #45, obviously assuming that NATO and the US would let him get away with it?
Good observation/question. DJT was Putin’s puppet. That was obvious in Finland when he told the world he trusted Putin more than US Intelligence. He was then and remains now, a danger to our country’s security.
I have felt all along that Putin's plan A was to have a second term with 45 and plan B was to invade Ukraine.
This may be a little too spy thriller to be true, but what if there was a whole lot of garbage intel purposely put in the files with the assumption DJT the creep would try to sell it?
I’ve been hoping that very thing ever since this started. TFG was known for being careless (and possibly worse) with intelligence, with some reports that a number of CIA assets abroad were mysteriously compromised a couple of years ago. Purposely altered intelligence documents with poison pills that would point back to the person(s) releasing them seems like a logical and practical thing for intelligence agencies to do when in doubt.
Overall, I think public speculation about the various types of harm TFG could accomplish would be helpful in pointing out the seriousness of the actions we already know about. How do we know he has had copies made? Hasn’t already shown them to bad actors in exchange for: Money? Protection? Ego gratification? Potential exile?
I don’t envy the task before our various intelligence agencies. How do you even begin to assess the harm done?
I was hoping Obama had done just that when they met during the transition and T looked like such a stooge. So if I had thought of it, people WAY smarter than I am did too.
Ok, now we've got the beginning of a plot for a new movie! Oliver Stone or Aaron Sorkin?
Sorkin. Always Sorkin.
You lost me; What are you hinting at? Plz; explain it to me like I’m 5? In what way would tRump’s documents facilitate an attack on Ukraine?
The documents might reveal that he was ready to ignore the invasion rather than rally NATO support. And maybe that hotel in Moscow would finally be built :)
Intelligence on how ill-equipped Ukraine was to withstand an attack that by all reports, Putin assumed would be a slam-dunk.
"an unprovoked attack on Ukraine" - look for facts instead of disinformation.
I.e. including offers to and rejection of negotiations.
If a tree in your neighbor's yard is likely to fall, is it unprovoked to initiate tree trimmers or removers?
Really? Like negotiating with my neighbor over whether or not he can take my property because I’m not a real person? There is zero excuse for what Putin has inflicted on Ukraine.
"whether or not he can take my property"
No, whether or not you have to suffer from preventable destruction (massive armament transfer - its not peaceful stuff) fostered (or festered) by a balding tow-headed drunk frat-boy wannabe cretin saying "negotiation is off the table, we [Joe and I, and Nancy and Chuck] make the rules." When your neighbor moves to train the cannon power on you if you touch a leaf for standing up for 8 years of dying, you might wanna provide some assistance until he backs away.
The specifics in the affidavit seem enough to indict Trump. However, Section 7 - Source of Evidence - hints there is more to come in the second sentence , "Because this affidavit is submitted for the limited purpose of establishing probable cause in support of the application for a search warrant, it does not set forth each and every fact that I, or others, have learned during the course of this investigation." Those facts may lead to more trouble for Trump and his accolades than just illegal record retention and obstruction - perhaps monetizing their value for personal gain.
I have a feeling that as revelations come out of the DOJ, there are at least a few seasoned Republicans who are getting antsy over the fealty they and their colleagues have lavished on DJT for the last 6 years. He has always been an immoral and conniving narcissist but now that it is being revealed that he put himself in a position of actual harm, I think, at least i pray, that these seasoned members of the GOP are thinking about jumping ship. I'd have thought Mitt Romney would be in the vanguard but he has certainly been put in an awkward box by his niece Ronna McDaniel who seems to have gone full-on MAGA.
Last night I watched #2 GQP Senator John Thune squirm and squirm under questioning by Amna Nawaz. The "Romney types" are splitting hairs and threading tiny needles while avoiding the plain facts in front of their noses. Their leader is a crook who may be guilty of multiple crimes including espionage. Watching these squirmers is embarrassing and their discomfort is revealing.
Agreed. And it is disheartening to recognize and witness the fear swirling in the Republican ranks. It's become like a cult.
It has become a disease. I have often said, DJT is sick and he has made us sick - whether supporter or the opposition.
You’re absolutely right.
Thanks. They are not “profiles in courage.”
The Romney types are the most loathesome of all. You’re tricked into thinking they have principles sometimes and just when you think you can count on them they show you they’re just political opportunists and always have been. Romney is one of the worst. A vote to impeach but “no” on the voting rights bill? I mean, come on.
And don’t forget the extra paycheck from the NRA to keep weapons of war in every citizens hands.
Not sure I'm with you on that. I'd take Romney over and over rather than Josh Hawley, Tom Cotton, or Ron Johnson. Or Lindsey Graham since he seems to have no principles at all that survive the next election cycle - he offends me particularly because he used to be such a good friend of McCain's.
I’d venture to say Graham was a opportunist with McCain, just riding along on his coattails. He is a chameleon. And I am sorry, you might remember Romney went hat in hand kissing up to Trump because he wanted to be his Secretary of State. I do not like taking a broad brush approach to all Republicans but they have certainly shown themselves to be cowards or willing to walk away and write a book, make money appearing on TV, etc. Cheney has been true to her commitment to the rule of law. We can celebrate her for that but remember her policy thinking is be different.
I’d take 50 Cheney over any of the incumbents in the GOP senate
Hawley, Cotton, Graham, Johnson, Jordan et al are consistent and predictable. They show who they are at every opportunity. But slimy worms like Romney are worse because they are unpredictable and you’ll never know when their principled side will appear. Flipping from principled to unprincipled seems far more devious and dangerous to me.
Clearly they have no principled side. Power and money are the reasons the GQP serve.
I must say those are horrible choices any way you look at them.
Hey, 47% don’t need to vote.
My opinion: they have found themselves too deeply involved to turn away. They enabled him way too long and made themselves vulnerable with an arrogance that they could pull off the lies and BS.
They own this. The GQP needs to go back to square one and start acknowledging reality.
What your niece does should not put you in an awkward position
There isn’t a prison large enough for what has always felt to me to be way more than just Trump and some of his administration. Remember the line, “"Just say that the election was corrupt + leave the rest to me and the R. Congressmen," Trump speaking to Acting Attorney General Rosen and acting deputy AG, Richard Donoghue: https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/30/politics/trump-election-justice/index.html
A thought has occurred to me regarding those "seasoned Republicans" - especially the ones who make frequent trips to Mar a Lago to play golf and especially those whose blather turned 180 degrees after the J6 attempted coup. There has been some speculation that among those classified documents might be "blackmail" material on certain members of the GOP. But I wonder if the "blackmail" might be that he actually showed them some of these classified documents, which they would KNOW to have been illegally taken, and therefore put them in the "awkward box" of either taking his side in all matters or going against him and reporting to DOJ what they had seen or knew about. Either way, they were caught in a trap - be complicit or be damned.
That’s horrifying. And it might also be right
Mitt Romney has been given way more credit than he deserves for pro-democracy behavior. He has mostly complied w/ Mitch McConnell's instructions for voting, issues, etc. He is no saint.
No saint, I agree. But on a scale weighted down by the likes of Hawley, Cotton, RonJohn, and Rubio, he does pretty well.
The Justice Department just played out one more way Trump planned to overturn the 2020 election and ruin free and fair elections. He is still the president and is allowed to do whatever he wants. He is not just stealing the 2020 election but stealing American democracy.
I just read the warrant application. I have a new appreciation for AG Garland and the Justice Department. It is clear that they have to get Trump dead to right or they will not be able to bring any indictment against him. They have done that. They gave him tons of rope by dragging out attempts to get these documents, giving him multiple opportunities to lie, cover up, ultimately because he, as president, can do whatever he wants because he is above the law.
With the release of this application, the only defense Trump and his supporters can now have is that he should be above the law. There is no Bill Bahr there to lie about what the warrant application contains. There is only OAN, Brightbart and Fox News that can help him proclaim that he should be above the law.
The application sets out each law that was violated, each thing ((element) that they need to prove to find Trump guilty of violating that law, and the evidence they have they believe proves that element.
The evidence that supports each element of law violation:
1. There is extensive discussion that the items found in the set of documents that Trump first turned over contains presidential records as well as classified documents;
2. They set out evidence that there are more documents stored at Trump's residence that had not been turned over, their attempts to get the documents still at Mara Lago, and the responses from Trump's attorneys.
During this period, they explain how they gave Trump ample opportunity to hang himself: he admitted that he had documents in violation of law, obstructed their ability to get those documents by lying, stating that he is above the law, and getting his news organizations to state that he is above the law, and by ginning up his base to attack (physically) law enforcement if they intend to enforce the law against him.
You can bet that a part of the next set of January 6 hearings will include his continued assertion that he is the lawful president, that he has the right to violate laws; that law enforcement has no right to investigate or prosecute him.
As I said, I have a new appreciation for AG Garland the the DOJ.
I send great hugs to you, your wife, your daughter, and your family, and I send congratulations and best wishes for a glorious wedding celebration and blessings on the couple. May their lives be long and filled with love, joy and wonderment.
Amen to these beautiful sentiments from Capt. Avatar! Thank you Robert, for sharing this news with us, A celebratory weekend, indeed!
I keep thinking of Harry Truman. Biden is indeed “decent and honest.”
"Russia...if you're listening, I have 184 pages of classified documents!"
Donald FPOTUS Trump
Not just Russia. I'm more concerned about our friends, the Saudis. Pompeo and Kushner made quite a bit of $ while "serving" in their positions. I have no doubt they are both involved in this.
I like the fiesty Joe. Gloves off Joe and the Democrats. Time to take the fight to the Rethuglican party. These people are a threat to Democracy. I will break out a bottle of champagne when Trump is behind bars. We should not be afraid of prosecuting him and those who are trying to destroy our government.
I myself have been enjoying Fetterman trolling Oz, and Newsom videos posted to Truth Social (there are three of them). The gloves are off! Glad to hear President Biden has come out swinging.
Absolutely
"Trump’s apologists might want to disentangle themselves from him before they thoroughly embarrass themselves." From Jennifer Rubin's column; I'd say it's a bit late for that now. If they're not thoroughly embarrassed at this point, they never will be and it's clear that some will go down with the ship if/when it is finally sunk.
The evidence is there Mr. Garland; JFDI.
JFDI now! TFG is a walking talking liability to our national security. Perp walk in cuffs. No bail. Secure his passports. Isolation cell. No phone.
In other words, treat him just like anyone else caught in the public commission of a crime.
Yes. And ignore all the whining and wailing. To do otherwise is to carve a special category of citizens immune to laws.
The category already exists, all we can do is keep it as small as possible.
I hope the FBI got ALL his Passports!
I read they gave the passports back - three of them - I would guess his, Melania's, and Barron's.
As you wrote, “it is a bit late for that now….” I’d venture to say, there is more than “embarrassment” they might be thinking about. I hope they have gone off to the forest for a quite weekend to let these matters sink in with some reflection time.
Congratulations Mr. Hubbell. Forget about politics for a few days. Believe it or not, those people are about to lose badly. Relax and enjoy your family. You deserve it.
Thank you for your dedication and hard work to keep us well informed. I never miss your letters
Dear Attorney General Garland: When you are done with Trump, please move on to Bill Barr. There will be no true justice until he and his DOJ lackeys are called to account for their willful shell game with the truth about Russian collusion.
Not to mention all the juicy targets from J6!!