" A consensus is emerging that the DOJ must indict Trump if the evidence warrants prosecution."
The last five words!...and especially "if"???
Is there any doubt that top secret documents that belong to the US government were found at TFG's home? In his personal closet, no less?
Is there any question that those documents belong in the National Archives? Not in a personal home!
Is there any question that TFG was no longer the President (for many months!) when those documents were found?
Good grief..."IF THE EVIDENCE"? What else does one need to confirm a crime has been committed? What further evidence could there be that would be more convincing? A video of TFG actually loading the stuff into a truck?
All this dancing around a clear crime committed with impunity and continuing arrogance (no denial!) is maddening and undermining faith in the American justice system, for sure. We are running out of time and we are losing patience. AG and DOJ: do your job!
I am searching for the logic here. Could it be that Fanni Willis in Georgia has the most powerful case that would bring the longest sentence? And has she appealed to Garland to pause? I have no idea. But I do know that the entire world is looking at this situation with stunned amusement and terror. How many countries would let such an obvious crook off the hook? A coup plotter. A thief of top secret documents. A meddler in elections. Does anyone else wake up every day and want to scream "I am mad as hell, and I won't take it anymore?"
I am the most patient person I know. Except for my wife whose middle name should be Patience. But I have had it. Just plain have had it. Disgusted and discouraged beyond words. OK, I'll quit now.
Hi, Bill. You write: Is there any doubt that top secret documents that belong to the US government were found at TFG's home? In his personal closet, no less?
Some of what you say is supported by a search warrant inventory and a letter from the National Archives; other of what you say is based on confidential sources talking to the NYTimes.
Neither the letter nor the search warrant receipt is evidence admissible in court. So, as someone trying to be careful where we know some facts based on inference and zero facts based on admissible evidence, I was trying to make the point that the DOJ knows what the evidence is and should make a judgment based on admissible evidence.
Careful and responsible prosecution of a case is always required. Emphasis in that phrasing should be equally placed on the words, "careful" and "responsible," while also focusing on the word "required."
I would bow to your legal understanding of the steps required to advance a successful prosecution. I get that. And I respect your efforts to be careful in your statements. We're on the same page here.
But let me ask you this:
If a "staffer" or anyone else had removed TOP SECRET documents from the White House, wouldn't they have been arrested at the first discovery of such "evidence"? TFG is being treated as some special royalty. He is not. He is a citizen. That's it.
TFG is literally challenging the DOJ to do it's job. And so far, IMHO, it is failing to do so.
For the longest time I did not understand that "TFG" was an acronym for "the former guy." Instead I thought it was an acronym for "the fat guy." Well, live and learn... LoL.
Thanks for your clarification. These points are important. We all want justice without going off the rails. We know that TFG will fight like hell to confuse and gaslight if at all possible. Stand strong. Thank you, Robert.
Several facts are indisputable following release of the affidavit:
Trump removed (technically stole) documents (Presidential records) that he was not entitled to retain.
A significant number of those documents contained National Defense and Intelligence information that are required to be held only in highly secured and approved locations.
Mar-a-Lago, a public resort and primary residence of the former President is neither a secure facility or an approved location at which such information can be held.
Trump knew all of this personally and was repeatedly asked to turn back these documents by NARA and the DOJ. He refused to return them multiple times and even denied holding them at times. The refusal to return them in response to a subpoena and lying about holding them is obstruction of justice.
The documents in question were not securely held, were mishandled, and perhaps even shared with unauthorized individuals in violation of the Espionage Act.
These are all serious crimes supported by clear evidence and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. To not prosecute TFG for these crimes would be unforgivable. Will he be found guilty if prosecuted? Who knows? Will such a prosecution be controversial and perceived by many as political? Yes, of course. However, defense of the Rule of Law and the overwhelming evidence demand that prosecution.
It’s not a question really about the contents of the document it’s more about the legal precedent of convicting a former President. My view is no former President committed illegal acts before so this sets the bar for what happens when they do. The DOJ must demonstrate for everyone the no one is above the law. Maybe if Trump is convicted it will be a deterrent for other legislators to stop doing illegal activities.
Not to mention that there is on the public record enough evidence to convict T___p of seditious conspiracy for the events leading up to and including January 6th. By comparison, the misappropriation (stealing to normal people) of the documents secreted at Mar-a-Lago is small beer, although it should still be prosecuted, and right now.
Well said! I share your frustration and confusion as damning fact after damning fact is released. (Imagine the evidence not released) the wheels of justice grind slowly let us all be diligent in seeking that justice!
What an excellent reflection on disinformation. I confess that I was unfamiliar with Shakespeare’s play, although I am familiar with English history. Yours is the first comment that I’ver seen to point out that disinformation is nothing new. Bad actors and mobsters are certainly nothing new.
As a child, I loved school. I loved learning to read. So many stories out there, just waiting for me. I wanted to be a teacher too, just like my mother, the best teacher EVER. I became a teacher because I wanted to to make the world a little better. I wanted to help children learn to read, so they could access some of life’s opportunities. I knew I would not make a lot of money, but I thought I could make a decent living. I might have been wrong. How many of you needed a university degree for a job that if you had a family, qualified you for food stamps? That was 46 years ago; now look where we are!!
Not only do educators get no respect with regard to pay; they get attacked in NC by the legislature, having benefits and job opportunities stripped away by provisions buried in a multi purpose bill. The amount of vitriol directed at people who only want to help others is staggering.
I too thank you, Jenn, for the sacrifices you and hundreds of thousands of others have made so that all Americans alive today have received solid educations and periodic encouragements. You have been part of an army that quietly does a vital service year after year, though underpaid.
I chose, as a professional, to do my work in such a way that the quality was much higher but the pay was much lower than my colleagues. Now retired, I live with the financial consequences of that choice. But I can look back with deep satisfaction on a medical career of conscientious service, and that is worth a great deal!
I hope that perspective is true for many, many of our fine teachers as well. All our society’s foundational learning skills, and abilities to think critically have sprung from the collective efforts and hours you folks put in. Bless you for your service! 🙏🏽
On Teachers! Pleased you mentioned their plight! I was privileged to teach for 41 years at the high school level.
However today’s public education environment has been tainted, stifled, in some cases made toxic by Republican control of budgets at the state level; an incompetent Sec of Education for 4 years at the federal level; and elected officials at every level who wallow in the gun lobby money while school children get slaughtered by insane perpetrators using automatic weapons firing ammo that is designed to shred the body!
I live on the NC coast, famous for its storms. When a hurricane is forecast, you make preparations to minimize damage. With regard to indicting Trump, I say prepare and batten down the hatches. Enough of “It’s a witch hunt!”
Lindsey Graham recently commented that there would be riots in the street if Trump is indicted and the NYT referenced possible violence. I’m sorry that is intimidation something that is a core principle of MAGA and it’s has to stop. Republican legislators are being intimidated not only at the Federal level but also at the state level. Anyone who tells the truth and stands up for Democracy does so at the risk of possible intimidation tactics. Beginning with the Mueller investigation law bidding citizens who have done their jobs and came forward and were attacked by right week media and social media or fired. The battle against truth and justice is intimidation and Trump is the bandleader. Everyone and I mean everyone is afraid of him. This has to end and I pray that Garland has the fortitude and the guts to do the right thing based on facts and the law and steps forward to announce loud and clear “ we will not be intimidated and no one is above the law. “. We need to take a stand and the time is now.
I saw the video of Lindsey Graham stating their would be riots in the streets, comparing the seizure of documents to Clinton, of course. (Not sure which Clinton, with the Rs any Clinton will do. Ah! Yes! Some have moved on to Hunter Biden.) My question is, "How will be bring an end to this intimidation. I find Lindsey Graham and many other Rs flat out disgusting. But does our disdain of politicians simply contribute to the divide, the hard line between partisanship and demonizing? Even though I have these feelings about many like Lindsey, I never feel comfortable characterizing them as the dishonorable people they seem to be, at least in actions and calls for riots as Lindsey has now made.
John , Trump came along and his action, lies and bullying rallied a certain small segment of the voting public because they believed he had their back when in reality he was using them to get elected and make money. Even today he has tweeted he had won the election etc. it will stop when Trump is gone, loses a lot of support and is convicted of crimes and his followers are held accountable. There has to be a price to pay in supporting Trump no matter what.
Stephen, I certainly agree that he must be prosecuted. I am always amazed that the Republicans love to grab on to something like “Hunter Biden” and run it into the ground. I got that thrown in my face by a family member (a FOX devotee) - there is no equivalency. But they sure can stir their base with such things as we saw of Clinton’s e-mails. We must confront this null equivalency nonsense.
In my view, not prosecuting Trump would be tantamount to not treating someone dying of cancer. Recent events have established beyond a shadow of a doubt that Trump and his cronies are malignant tumors afflicting the body politic, poisoning the processes of democracy with lies and hateful propaganda, undermining the foundations of the Constitution, threatening our national security and bending the rule of law to suit the nefarious purposes of a narcissistic miscreant unfit for public office at any level. If indicting Trump triggers a "storm," so be it. But it will have to be a powerful one, accompanied by a lot of thunder and lightning. In view of the fascist intentions and bullying tactics of the GOP now held in the grip of Trumpism, a violent confrontation may be the only solution, the inevitable and necessary elixir, as you say, to clear the "foul sky."
With all due respect to President Biden, I have to admit that I'm at odds with his term "semi-fascists" in identifying the GOP's intentions regarding their assault on Democracy. There's nothing "semi" or "flacid" about the rape of Liberty and our Democratic freedoms being attempted by these people. Given the polarization that prevails in today's political climate, there's no conciliatory nuance at play in the machinations of the GOP, just as there's no such thing as a semi-malignant tumor. So, Mr. President, let's call the enemy what they truly and fully are: Fascists, with a capital "F," enemies of freedom who promote the far-right ideology of populist ultra-nationalism (MAGA) and authoritarian rule that suppresses opposition and subordinates individual freedom for the benefit of a corporatized, elite class. That's not what I signed up for when I took an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. Nor did I elect to live in a "semi-democracy," run by "semi-fascists." Trump has drawn a line in the sacred TERRA FIRMA of the USA and it's time for Americans to decide which side they're on: a Fascist oligarchy ruled by the wealthy, or a democratic republic managed for the benefit of the Common Good by We, the People! Now that's a "stormy' prospect.
FWIW...I'm with you on *all* of this, Stewart. Every single word. Including the word Fascist. There's been a lot of incessant quibbling about the actions we see and the strict, formal definition of the word. But while every single detail of every single action may not fit the formal definition precisely, I'm sorry, but in this case if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck and behaves like a duck, it's a freakin' duck. And not a semi-duck.
At least we've reached the point that the man holding the highest office in the land is willing to say the word out loud, even if it was with an inappropriate modifier. I guess that's some kind of progress at least.
In July, my son and I saw an outdoor production of King John in Connecticut. Wow, dark! And yes, related and dare I say that I hope 45...
Also this summer, we saw Richard III at Shakespeare in the Park. Wow, again! Totally played to signify a relation to 45, including a scene where Richard holds up a bible, like 45 in front of the church in DC in middle of BLM protest.
Rick Wilson just posted this and it sums up what Robert said in Today’s Edition. “ The danger of his people rising up if he's indicted, prosecuted, and imprisoned is far, far less consequential than walking away from justice.” Amen.
As a teacher in Oklahoma in the 60's and 70's, many of us relied on the commentary of Frosty Troy, publisher of The Oklahoma Observer.
Here is an excerpt sample of his work: " With all its warts, public education produces more math and science brains than all of the private education combines. From astronauts to Pulitzer prize winners, from Nobel laureates to the clergy, they are in the front rank. The public school day may not start with a Hail Mary or an Our Father, a mantra or a blood sacrifice, But public education does more humanitarian work every day than any other institution in American - and that includes the churches."
Aug 29, 2022·edited Aug 29, 2022Liked by Robert B. Hubbell
It may seem unnecessary, especially to readers here, but educating the public on the most basic aspects of the law (what is theft), the jobs of the DOJ, the National Archives, the FBI, the magistrates, etc. are necessary to preempt the reflexive response to indictment and whatever else will follow.
Civics should have been taught in school, but perhaps deliberately to make possible a situation such as we have now, it has not been for some time. Teaching the basics without including specific examples (names ie, Clinton, Trump, Hunter) that get people to reflexively take sides, is needed, followed by a basic quiz...If a person steals and hides material that don't belong to them have they committed a crime? ....If a person tries to stop government procedures is it a crime? ....
Very basic stuff. I propose this be done as national television show in an entertaining fashion, perhaps using the "are you smarter than a third grader" approach.
As a citizens we should first agree on what that means. Then we can deal with the crimes.
Ken Burns could probably do wonders with this idea, providing the history and logic to each major facet that is vital to a strong civic life. I’m imaging say ten 45 min. segments.
Ken Burns is a perfect idea from Tyler Taylor's comment! DK Brooklyn, here is the Contact Us from his website. Will you send your idea on to him? https://kenburns.com/contact-us/ If not, I will be happy to do so and credit you with the idea!
I'm a follower of Robert Hubbell's newsletter on substack, and we've been discussing how important it is for Americans to get what it means to be a citizen of a democracy, and how little most Americans actually know about "civics."
One of the readers suggest that we need a documentary/call to action that would appeal to the general public. Another suggested that you would be a perfect artist to create this. I offered to pass on the request! So in the interest of brevity, below my signature is the full suggestion as well as a link to this edition of Robert's newsletter.
"It may seem unnecessary, especially to readers here, but educating the public on the most basic aspects of the law (what is theft), the jobs of the DOJ, the National Archives, the FBI, the magistrates, etc. are necessary to preempt the reflexive response to indictment and whatever else will follow.
Civics should have been taught in school, but perhaps deliberately to make possible a situation such as we have now, it has not been for some time. Teaching the basics without including specific examples (names ie, Clinton, Trump, Hunter) that get people to reflexively take sides, is needed, followed by a basic quiz...If a person steals and hides material that don't belong to them have they committed a crime? ....If a person tries to stop government procedures is it a crime? ....
Very basic stuff. I propose this be done as national television show in an entertaining fashion, perhaps using the "are you smarter than a third grader" approach.
As a citizens we should first agree on what that means. Then we can deal with the crimes.
Yesterday's breakfast conversation revealed how disgusted many business conservatives are, with the current crop of Republican nominees, across the board. The people with whom I spoke are becoming inured to the prospects of INCREASED Democratic dominance of the House and Senate-and more Democratic governors.
It could well be that the judge in the Mar-a-Lago documents case is calling Trump's bluff, will listen on Thursday to the DOJ objections, and conclude that a Special Master in this case would be a waste of taxpayer dollars, to which the same people who are screaming about the "inequity" of student loan forgiveness will yell that the Special Master is a good investment. I long ago ceased to be surprised by anything Trump does.
Trump took the documents...not his...ours. He was asked to return them. He did not.
It is a crime to take them. They were highly classified docs. An even larger crime. Indict and prosecute. Waiting for or searching for a flimsy excuse as to why he took them is pointless right now. He can offer that under oath at the trial. I rest my case.
Wonderful letter, as usual! I'm especially appreciative of the allusions to Shakespeare. Nothing new under the sun... Ecclesiastes 1:9 certainly influenced him: "The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun."
With the help of all of us, we will come out stronger. Thank you for your guidance, Robert!
Lindsey should be concerned about the safety of the United States and of the brave people who work with us under dangerous circumstances. Instead he is defending the mob boss. South Carolina should have sent him packing when they had the chance. This moment in time will reveal those who are traitors to our country.
Lindsey Graham is such a terrified little man that he has become dangerous and he peddles himself on the street corner now. Buyer beware. But the larger body of Republicans is--as usual and with more success under their belts than Lindsey, are trying to appear cool while playing the waiting game--and what they seem to be waiting for is just that one clue that will tell them which way to jump. A difference I detect is that, previously, with all their differences in lives, constituents, personal and political/economic needs, they have been willing to be whipped into a coherent group that supports Trump. Today, they seem a lot more like separate, individual /Republicans each of whom is mostly watching for the sign that tells him/her which way to jump. It feels like an important shift.
The problem with your post is that there are a lot of "shoulds." Unfortunately, we see no end to the intimidation and willingness to malign anyone who defies Trump or the Republican talking points. If I am wrong, let me know. I'd be pleasantly surprised to see that some are standing up. As for Dean's suggestion that the "seem to be waiting for just one clue that will tell them which way to jump," if that is the case they have been sleep walking for the past 6 years. Ugh!
Hi, John, I left out a detail in my thinking. They're waiting for a clue that will tell them which way to jump so they can land with positions and bank accounts not just safe, but improved.
I'm looking at your post about "shoulds." I don't even know who or what it's a reply to, but it's a good reminder to me of my own tendency to think with that word when I see a situation (or find myself in one) over which I have no control. For me, it's a fear word. And it's meaningless in terms of producing any results. It's my lecturing word. I hope it isn't, in this case, the word I think when it's already too late.
Dean, my sincere apologies. My post was in response to Annette D, of Land of Lakes O. Lakes, FL, and was intended to point out that the idea that “South Carolina should have sent him (LIndsey Graham) packing,” is, of course speaking to what should have happened. I agree with the thought but it is certainly a moot point. The man has no moral compass that I can recognize and takes every opportunity to malign those who speak up to TFG. Lindsey, has chosen to thrown his lot with the most horrendous past president. Again, my apologies to you and all readers.
Oh, no. I don't think you owe an apology. On the contrary, your use of the word was a spur to me to do a bit of introspection. I meant exactly what I thought I was saying--that your mentioning the word brought me to realize what drives me to use the word. I wasn't responding to it in context (Annette's post) just to the word and when I am apt to use it. And the more I think about it, the more I think there are very few times when it's a good word for me. So, thank you for the unnecessary apology but more important thanks for getting me thinking
" A consensus is emerging that the DOJ must indict Trump if the evidence warrants prosecution."
The last five words!...and especially "if"???
Is there any doubt that top secret documents that belong to the US government were found at TFG's home? In his personal closet, no less?
Is there any question that those documents belong in the National Archives? Not in a personal home!
Is there any question that TFG was no longer the President (for many months!) when those documents were found?
Good grief..."IF THE EVIDENCE"? What else does one need to confirm a crime has been committed? What further evidence could there be that would be more convincing? A video of TFG actually loading the stuff into a truck?
All this dancing around a clear crime committed with impunity and continuing arrogance (no denial!) is maddening and undermining faith in the American justice system, for sure. We are running out of time and we are losing patience. AG and DOJ: do your job!
I am searching for the logic here. Could it be that Fanni Willis in Georgia has the most powerful case that would bring the longest sentence? And has she appealed to Garland to pause? I have no idea. But I do know that the entire world is looking at this situation with stunned amusement and terror. How many countries would let such an obvious crook off the hook? A coup plotter. A thief of top secret documents. A meddler in elections. Does anyone else wake up every day and want to scream "I am mad as hell, and I won't take it anymore?"
I am the most patient person I know. Except for my wife whose middle name should be Patience. But I have had it. Just plain have had it. Disgusted and discouraged beyond words. OK, I'll quit now.
Hi, Bill. You write: Is there any doubt that top secret documents that belong to the US government were found at TFG's home? In his personal closet, no less?
Some of what you say is supported by a search warrant inventory and a letter from the National Archives; other of what you say is based on confidential sources talking to the NYTimes.
Neither the letter nor the search warrant receipt is evidence admissible in court. So, as someone trying to be careful where we know some facts based on inference and zero facts based on admissible evidence, I was trying to make the point that the DOJ knows what the evidence is and should make a judgment based on admissible evidence.
Careful and responsible prosecution of a case is always required. Emphasis in that phrasing should be equally placed on the words, "careful" and "responsible," while also focusing on the word "required."
I would bow to your legal understanding of the steps required to advance a successful prosecution. I get that. And I respect your efforts to be careful in your statements. We're on the same page here.
But let me ask you this:
If a "staffer" or anyone else had removed TOP SECRET documents from the White House, wouldn't they have been arrested at the first discovery of such "evidence"? TFG is being treated as some special royalty. He is not. He is a citizen. That's it.
TFG is literally challenging the DOJ to do it's job. And so far, IMHO, it is failing to do so.
For the longest time I did not understand that "TFG" was an acronym for "the former guy." Instead I thought it was an acronym for "the fat guy." Well, live and learn... LoL.
Thanks for your clarification. These points are important. We all want justice without going off the rails. We know that TFG will fight like hell to confuse and gaslight if at all possible. Stand strong. Thank you, Robert.
Several facts are indisputable following release of the affidavit:
Trump removed (technically stole) documents (Presidential records) that he was not entitled to retain.
A significant number of those documents contained National Defense and Intelligence information that are required to be held only in highly secured and approved locations.
Mar-a-Lago, a public resort and primary residence of the former President is neither a secure facility or an approved location at which such information can be held.
Trump knew all of this personally and was repeatedly asked to turn back these documents by NARA and the DOJ. He refused to return them multiple times and even denied holding them at times. The refusal to return them in response to a subpoena and lying about holding them is obstruction of justice.
The documents in question were not securely held, were mishandled, and perhaps even shared with unauthorized individuals in violation of the Espionage Act.
These are all serious crimes supported by clear evidence and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. To not prosecute TFG for these crimes would be unforgivable. Will he be found guilty if prosecuted? Who knows? Will such a prosecution be controversial and perceived by many as political? Yes, of course. However, defense of the Rule of Law and the overwhelming evidence demand that prosecution.
It’s not a question really about the contents of the document it’s more about the legal precedent of convicting a former President. My view is no former President committed illegal acts before so this sets the bar for what happens when they do. The DOJ must demonstrate for everyone the no one is above the law. Maybe if Trump is convicted it will be a deterrent for other legislators to stop doing illegal activities.
Not to mention that there is on the public record enough evidence to convict T___p of seditious conspiracy for the events leading up to and including January 6th. By comparison, the misappropriation (stealing to normal people) of the documents secreted at Mar-a-Lago is small beer, although it should still be prosecuted, and right now.
Well said! I share your frustration and confusion as damning fact after damning fact is released. (Imagine the evidence not released) the wheels of justice grind slowly let us all be diligent in seeking that justice!
I believe they are waiting for some TFG insider to tell how they were aware of or witnessed a “transfer/sale/show” to another person.
What an excellent reflection on disinformation. I confess that I was unfamiliar with Shakespeare’s play, although I am familiar with English history. Yours is the first comment that I’ver seen to point out that disinformation is nothing new. Bad actors and mobsters are certainly nothing new.
As a child, I loved school. I loved learning to read. So many stories out there, just waiting for me. I wanted to be a teacher too, just like my mother, the best teacher EVER. I became a teacher because I wanted to to make the world a little better. I wanted to help children learn to read, so they could access some of life’s opportunities. I knew I would not make a lot of money, but I thought I could make a decent living. I might have been wrong. How many of you needed a university degree for a job that if you had a family, qualified you for food stamps? That was 46 years ago; now look where we are!!
Not only do educators get no respect with regard to pay; they get attacked in NC by the legislature, having benefits and job opportunities stripped away by provisions buried in a multi purpose bill. The amount of vitriol directed at people who only want to help others is staggering.
Thanks for your lifetime of service! you have undoubtedly made a difference in the lives of thousands of children who are now responsible citizens.
I too thank you, Jenn, for the sacrifices you and hundreds of thousands of others have made so that all Americans alive today have received solid educations and periodic encouragements. You have been part of an army that quietly does a vital service year after year, though underpaid.
I chose, as a professional, to do my work in such a way that the quality was much higher but the pay was much lower than my colleagues. Now retired, I live with the financial consequences of that choice. But I can look back with deep satisfaction on a medical career of conscientious service, and that is worth a great deal!
I hope that perspective is true for many, many of our fine teachers as well. All our society’s foundational learning skills, and abilities to think critically have sprung from the collective efforts and hours you folks put in. Bless you for your service! 🙏🏽
I love starting my morning with a cup of strong coffee and a lesson from Shakespeare. Thank you!
Shakespeare is timeless. People never change.
Shakespeare's genius was his ability to understand the human condition and describe it in a way that was recognizable to his audience.
On Teachers! Pleased you mentioned their plight! I was privileged to teach for 41 years at the high school level.
However today’s public education environment has been tainted, stifled, in some cases made toxic by Republican control of budgets at the state level; an incompetent Sec of Education for 4 years at the federal level; and elected officials at every level who wallow in the gun lobby money while school children get slaughtered by insane perpetrators using automatic weapons firing ammo that is designed to shred the body!
Hey, now that’s a job I want, not!
I live on the NC coast, famous for its storms. When a hurricane is forecast, you make preparations to minimize damage. With regard to indicting Trump, I say prepare and batten down the hatches. Enough of “It’s a witch hunt!”
Lindsey Graham recently commented that there would be riots in the street if Trump is indicted and the NYT referenced possible violence. I’m sorry that is intimidation something that is a core principle of MAGA and it’s has to stop. Republican legislators are being intimidated not only at the Federal level but also at the state level. Anyone who tells the truth and stands up for Democracy does so at the risk of possible intimidation tactics. Beginning with the Mueller investigation law bidding citizens who have done their jobs and came forward and were attacked by right week media and social media or fired. The battle against truth and justice is intimidation and Trump is the bandleader. Everyone and I mean everyone is afraid of him. This has to end and I pray that Garland has the fortitude and the guts to do the right thing based on facts and the law and steps forward to announce loud and clear “ we will not be intimidated and no one is above the law. “. We need to take a stand and the time is now.
I saw the video of Lindsey Graham stating their would be riots in the streets, comparing the seizure of documents to Clinton, of course. (Not sure which Clinton, with the Rs any Clinton will do. Ah! Yes! Some have moved on to Hunter Biden.) My question is, "How will be bring an end to this intimidation. I find Lindsey Graham and many other Rs flat out disgusting. But does our disdain of politicians simply contribute to the divide, the hard line between partisanship and demonizing? Even though I have these feelings about many like Lindsey, I never feel comfortable characterizing them as the dishonorable people they seem to be, at least in actions and calls for riots as Lindsey has now made.
John , Trump came along and his action, lies and bullying rallied a certain small segment of the voting public because they believed he had their back when in reality he was using them to get elected and make money. Even today he has tweeted he had won the election etc. it will stop when Trump is gone, loses a lot of support and is convicted of crimes and his followers are held accountable. There has to be a price to pay in supporting Trump no matter what.
Stephen, I certainly agree that he must be prosecuted. I am always amazed that the Republicans love to grab on to something like “Hunter Biden” and run it into the ground. I got that thrown in my face by a family member (a FOX devotee) - there is no equivalency. But they sure can stir their base with such things as we saw of Clinton’s e-mails. We must confront this null equivalency nonsense.
In my view, not prosecuting Trump would be tantamount to not treating someone dying of cancer. Recent events have established beyond a shadow of a doubt that Trump and his cronies are malignant tumors afflicting the body politic, poisoning the processes of democracy with lies and hateful propaganda, undermining the foundations of the Constitution, threatening our national security and bending the rule of law to suit the nefarious purposes of a narcissistic miscreant unfit for public office at any level. If indicting Trump triggers a "storm," so be it. But it will have to be a powerful one, accompanied by a lot of thunder and lightning. In view of the fascist intentions and bullying tactics of the GOP now held in the grip of Trumpism, a violent confrontation may be the only solution, the inevitable and necessary elixir, as you say, to clear the "foul sky."
With all due respect to President Biden, I have to admit that I'm at odds with his term "semi-fascists" in identifying the GOP's intentions regarding their assault on Democracy. There's nothing "semi" or "flacid" about the rape of Liberty and our Democratic freedoms being attempted by these people. Given the polarization that prevails in today's political climate, there's no conciliatory nuance at play in the machinations of the GOP, just as there's no such thing as a semi-malignant tumor. So, Mr. President, let's call the enemy what they truly and fully are: Fascists, with a capital "F," enemies of freedom who promote the far-right ideology of populist ultra-nationalism (MAGA) and authoritarian rule that suppresses opposition and subordinates individual freedom for the benefit of a corporatized, elite class. That's not what I signed up for when I took an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. Nor did I elect to live in a "semi-democracy," run by "semi-fascists." Trump has drawn a line in the sacred TERRA FIRMA of the USA and it's time for Americans to decide which side they're on: a Fascist oligarchy ruled by the wealthy, or a democratic republic managed for the benefit of the Common Good by We, the People! Now that's a "stormy' prospect.
FWIW...I'm with you on *all* of this, Stewart. Every single word. Including the word Fascist. There's been a lot of incessant quibbling about the actions we see and the strict, formal definition of the word. But while every single detail of every single action may not fit the formal definition precisely, I'm sorry, but in this case if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck and behaves like a duck, it's a freakin' duck. And not a semi-duck.
At least we've reached the point that the man holding the highest office in the land is willing to say the word out loud, even if it was with an inappropriate modifier. I guess that's some kind of progress at least.
In July, my son and I saw an outdoor production of King John in Connecticut. Wow, dark! And yes, related and dare I say that I hope 45...
Also this summer, we saw Richard III at Shakespeare in the Park. Wow, again! Totally played to signify a relation to 45, including a scene where Richard holds up a bible, like 45 in front of the church in DC in middle of BLM protest.
These bad kings do not come to a good end. 😀
Rick Wilson just posted this and it sums up what Robert said in Today’s Edition. “ The danger of his people rising up if he's indicted, prosecuted, and imprisoned is far, far less consequential than walking away from justice.” Amen.
As a teacher in Oklahoma in the 60's and 70's, many of us relied on the commentary of Frosty Troy, publisher of The Oklahoma Observer.
Here is an excerpt sample of his work: " With all its warts, public education produces more math and science brains than all of the private education combines. From astronauts to Pulitzer prize winners, from Nobel laureates to the clergy, they are in the front rank. The public school day may not start with a Hail Mary or an Our Father, a mantra or a blood sacrifice, But public education does more humanitarian work every day than any other institution in American - and that includes the churches."
More of his life and work can be found at http://www.populist.com/02.4.troy.html
It may seem unnecessary, especially to readers here, but educating the public on the most basic aspects of the law (what is theft), the jobs of the DOJ, the National Archives, the FBI, the magistrates, etc. are necessary to preempt the reflexive response to indictment and whatever else will follow.
Civics should have been taught in school, but perhaps deliberately to make possible a situation such as we have now, it has not been for some time. Teaching the basics without including specific examples (names ie, Clinton, Trump, Hunter) that get people to reflexively take sides, is needed, followed by a basic quiz...If a person steals and hides material that don't belong to them have they committed a crime? ....If a person tries to stop government procedures is it a crime? ....
Very basic stuff. I propose this be done as national television show in an entertaining fashion, perhaps using the "are you smarter than a third grader" approach.
As a citizens we should first agree on what that means. Then we can deal with the crimes.
Ken Burns could probably do wonders with this idea, providing the history and logic to each major facet that is vital to a strong civic life. I’m imaging say ten 45 min. segments.
Ken Burns is perfect!
I love this idea! Please send it on to Michael Moore and any other documentarian/film maker you can think of !!
Ken Burns is a perfect idea from Tyler Taylor's comment! DK Brooklyn, here is the Contact Us from his website. Will you send your idea on to him? https://kenburns.com/contact-us/ If not, I will be happy to do so and credit you with the idea!
Thanks Chaplain Nicholetti. If you’d contact his team, I’d be appreciative!
Done! Here's what I sent.
Dear Mr. Burns,
I'm a follower of Robert Hubbell's newsletter on substack, and we've been discussing how important it is for Americans to get what it means to be a citizen of a democracy, and how little most Americans actually know about "civics."
One of the readers suggest that we need a documentary/call to action that would appeal to the general public. Another suggested that you would be a perfect artist to create this. I offered to pass on the request! So in the interest of brevity, below my signature is the full suggestion as well as a link to this edition of Robert's newsletter.
With blessings and much gratitude,
Terry Nicholetti
Chaplain at Large
https://roberthubbell.substack.com/p/so-foul-a-sky-?r=eznl2&s=r&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
From DK Brooklyn
"It may seem unnecessary, especially to readers here, but educating the public on the most basic aspects of the law (what is theft), the jobs of the DOJ, the National Archives, the FBI, the magistrates, etc. are necessary to preempt the reflexive response to indictment and whatever else will follow.
Civics should have been taught in school, but perhaps deliberately to make possible a situation such as we have now, it has not been for some time. Teaching the basics without including specific examples (names ie, Clinton, Trump, Hunter) that get people to reflexively take sides, is needed, followed by a basic quiz...If a person steals and hides material that don't belong to them have they committed a crime? ....If a person tries to stop government procedures is it a crime? ....
Very basic stuff. I propose this be done as national television show in an entertaining fashion, perhaps using the "are you smarter than a third grader" approach.
As a citizens we should first agree on what that means. Then we can deal with the crimes.
👍👍🙏🏽
Yesterday's breakfast conversation revealed how disgusted many business conservatives are, with the current crop of Republican nominees, across the board. The people with whom I spoke are becoming inured to the prospects of INCREASED Democratic dominance of the House and Senate-and more Democratic governors.
It could well be that the judge in the Mar-a-Lago documents case is calling Trump's bluff, will listen on Thursday to the DOJ objections, and conclude that a Special Master in this case would be a waste of taxpayer dollars, to which the same people who are screaming about the "inequity" of student loan forgiveness will yell that the Special Master is a good investment. I long ago ceased to be surprised by anything Trump does.
Trump took the documents...not his...ours. He was asked to return them. He did not.
It is a crime to take them. They were highly classified docs. An even larger crime. Indict and prosecute. Waiting for or searching for a flimsy excuse as to why he took them is pointless right now. He can offer that under oath at the trial. I rest my case.
Wonderful letter, as usual! I'm especially appreciative of the allusions to Shakespeare. Nothing new under the sun... Ecclesiastes 1:9 certainly influenced him: "The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun."
With the help of all of us, we will come out stronger. Thank you for your guidance, Robert!
Stephen mentioned Lindsey Graham’s despicable comments. Here is the link to the story: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-news-today-rally-schedule-fbi-raid-b2154734.html?amp
Lindsey should be concerned about the safety of the United States and of the brave people who work with us under dangerous circumstances. Instead he is defending the mob boss. South Carolina should have sent him packing when they had the chance. This moment in time will reveal those who are traitors to our country.
You'll appreciate Lawrence O'Donnell's skewering today of Lindsey Graham with word of the week: quisling
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quisling
I sure did!!!!!
Lindsey Graham is such a terrified little man that he has become dangerous and he peddles himself on the street corner now. Buyer beware. But the larger body of Republicans is--as usual and with more success under their belts than Lindsey, are trying to appear cool while playing the waiting game--and what they seem to be waiting for is just that one clue that will tell them which way to jump. A difference I detect is that, previously, with all their differences in lives, constituents, personal and political/economic needs, they have been willing to be whipped into a coherent group that supports Trump. Today, they seem a lot more like separate, individual /Republicans each of whom is mostly watching for the sign that tells him/her which way to jump. It feels like an important shift.
The problem with your post is that there are a lot of "shoulds." Unfortunately, we see no end to the intimidation and willingness to malign anyone who defies Trump or the Republican talking points. If I am wrong, let me know. I'd be pleasantly surprised to see that some are standing up. As for Dean's suggestion that the "seem to be waiting for just one clue that will tell them which way to jump," if that is the case they have been sleep walking for the past 6 years. Ugh!
Hi, John, I left out a detail in my thinking. They're waiting for a clue that will tell them which way to jump so they can land with positions and bank accounts not just safe, but improved.
Thanks Dean.
Good morning,
I'm looking at your post about "shoulds." I don't even know who or what it's a reply to, but it's a good reminder to me of my own tendency to think with that word when I see a situation (or find myself in one) over which I have no control. For me, it's a fear word. And it's meaningless in terms of producing any results. It's my lecturing word. I hope it isn't, in this case, the word I think when it's already too late.
Dean, my sincere apologies. My post was in response to Annette D, of Land of Lakes O. Lakes, FL, and was intended to point out that the idea that “South Carolina should have sent him (LIndsey Graham) packing,” is, of course speaking to what should have happened. I agree with the thought but it is certainly a moot point. The man has no moral compass that I can recognize and takes every opportunity to malign those who speak up to TFG. Lindsey, has chosen to thrown his lot with the most horrendous past president. Again, my apologies to you and all readers.
Oh, no. I don't think you owe an apology. On the contrary, your use of the word was a spur to me to do a bit of introspection. I meant exactly what I thought I was saying--that your mentioning the word brought me to realize what drives me to use the word. I wasn't responding to it in context (Annette's post) just to the word and when I am apt to use it. And the more I think about it, the more I think there are very few times when it's a good word for me. So, thank you for the unnecessary apology but more important thanks for getting me thinking