Turning "whataboutism" on its ear: "While the Post’s objection is technically true, it is also true for the following subsidies and credits: Trump’s 2017 tax cut for millionaires, oil company subsidies, export subsidies for US manufacturers, auto industry subsidies, lower tax rates for hedge fund managers (“carried interest deduction”), 100% deductibility for yachts purchased for “business purposes,” and deduction for 100% of the future depreciation for private jets in their first year of service."
Talk about a thorough shellacking! I have rarely read such a razor-sharp and finely detailed reading of the political landscape. Your opinions are clear and your analysis is balanced. A rare combination.
Great Today's Edition today, I do hope you give some space to recognize Charlie Crist's win as Florida's Democratic nominee to take on Ron DeSantis as governor in November. We in Florida know that Charlie Crist winning in November is a huge step in returning respectable leadership under the rule of law and the Constitution. Everything is on the line, for Florida and our nation. As Senior Advisor, Women for Crist, we are working to activate women voters all across our state, of every stripe, Dems, Rs, NPA, whatever! Our freedoms as women are on this November ballot. Make no mistake that abortion bans and criminalization are on the table. With a lot of hard work, we can WIN this! Yes we can!
Thanks for sharing this. My brother now lives in Florida and he's planning a road trip as soon as he can to get away from De Santis. He's worked in government all his life and he loathes this guy. I like Mr. Crist's message. I think it's going to resonate with lots and lots of people in Florida who don't like being labeled by Mr. De Santis' hate and fear campaign.
I’m as happy as anyone to see that Pay Ryan defeated Molinaro in NY-19’s special election. Pat’s a terrific candidate who has been able to succeed even in R-leaning districts. Molinaro has a lot of baggage at this point (his plan to allocate American Rescue Plan funds to enhance the local stadium—which he had to retract— is perhaps his largest albatross) I wouldn’t call it a “shellacking”, though, as Ryan won by 3,000 votes. That’s better than only 300, but no matter how you spin it, once again: MOST PEOPLE DIDN’T VOTE. I know all the usual reasons (it’s August, people are on vacation, blahblahblah) but complacency is our worst enemy.
I’m not sure if voting was lower than usual, because our district’s boundaries cross more than one county, and as far as I can tell, stats are gathered by county board of elections (if that makes sense). All I can tell is that a helluva lot more are registered to vote than cast ballots.
I agree with that, but I think also that New York changed the date of their primary recently. If I am right about that, it might well have affected the turnout.
I think we have to continue to remind ourselves that people who want to suppress the vote are not people who favor free and fair elections or democracy. I think that is worth reminding ourselves over and over again. They do not want democracy.
I want to comment on the TIMING of Biden’s action to cancel some student loan debt. I think it shows that Biden and/or his advisors are very smart. Had he taken this step six months or a year ago as the disillusioned young voters wished, the cries of the editorialists would have been deafening - and no one would have been listening. The subject would have been added into the snowballing anti-Bidenism.
It would have been even worse three months ago when gas actually was $6 a gallon.
But now is the perfect time for this move as the post-Labor Day political season approaches. Republicans can’t wait to attack the plan, but it’s election season , and like moths to a flame, they are adding another unpopular position to the Dobbs and anti-democracy baggage they are already carrying.
How many will vote for Democrats because of this? An estimated 20M will see their debt eliminated! You think that's peanuts? Many more D votes out of this than R votes for sure. Why would the dissatisfied vote R? The Republicans don't offer more relief. Perhaps they don't vote, but not a major loss.
From what I've seen, the Republicans don't offer anything other than tax breaks for the wealthy and your usual, "let's gut government." That's no way to go.
That's been a dilemma for decades. The R's call fiscal mismanagement on any plan that benefits....are you ready....BIPOC! Plus just plain middle class folks. I will never quite understand why so many Americans spite themselves by identifying with the party that gives and gives to the wealthy and corporations.
I understand what you’re saying but hope that the “dissatisfied “ do vote. Otherwise their absence will, in effect, be a vote for Republicans. Every vote matters!
Loan forgiveness is essential. Those who are wealthy often gained through inheritance. There is simply no equation that justifies wealthy people being able to go bankrupt, as Trump did, paying maybe .10 on the dollar because of his egoic buildings and then turning around and denying it to the people who have to deal with climate change! This is certainly intersectionalism at its finest. I think today, everything being so transparent, that the very wealthy believing that they did it all themselves, that their mothers didn't sacrifice, their fathers didn't panic, is nonsense.
Just wanted to chime in to say that I had the misfortune to work for Barr for a few months. After my first meeting with him where he demonstrated a complete ignorance and disdain for my area of legal practice, I sought new employment. And yet he’s still a member of the bar.
I'm glad to hear that. I watched Barr during the January 6 hearings and he seemed both arrogant and obnoxious. Self-satisfied. Plus, his redaction of The Mueller Report really bugged me. Glad you found a new boss.
I watched Pat Ryan being interviewed last night on the NewsHour. What an articulate and thoughtful person! I agree he clearly won because of the positions he promoted. But he also has a manner and a sense of leadership that is very compelling. Bright future for future Rep Ryan!
Comment about:
"The main driver of that uptick in Democratic enthusiasm is the Supreme Court decision overturning Roe v. Wade, and the poll finds 58% of voters disapproving of that decision, versus 38% who approve."
While polls are interesting and we can learn from them, they really tell one part of a story. "58%" is great - but only if this poll is really representing people who really vote. Are these registered voters? Are these voters leaving the polling booth? My point is that the "Democratic disapproval enthusiasm" may be well over 58%. Perhaps the backlash against "Dobbs" and state level authoritarianism will be bigger than we anticipated. Hope so.
As to all the blather about student debt, I think we are lost in the weeds here. The WaPo editorial is a page out of a Jeff Bezos libertarian playbook. A modern, fully equal society would pay for ALL education from daycare to employment. Biden's debt forgiveness by executive order is a wonderful beginning.
Next, cancel all student debt. Then make education a human right in the richest country to have ever existed. There is plenty of money for this.
Other nations do it. It's no different than health care. You either care about all your citizens ... or you don't! It's up to our Congress to make it happen. Maybe such will be the case if the broad population is ever represented properly - instead of being dominated by a bigoted minority.
“ While polls are interesting and we can learn from them, they really tell one part of a story. "58%" is great - but only if this poll is really representing people who really vote. Are these registered voters? Are these voters leaving the polling booth? My point is that the "Democratic disapproval enthusiasm" may be well over 58%.”
Or, alternately, maybe no matter what it is, voters will still choose Dems over crazed pubs
I am happy that the Barr memo was released by Merrick Garland who by pursuing the appeal did all that was necessary to defend the indefensible position that the memos should not be released.
In addition to all your strong points rejecting the student loan forgiveness editorial in the ( let us not forget )Jeff Bezos owned Washington Post one can add the following from today's newsletter from Heather Cox Richardson :
"Canceling a portion of student debt is a resumption of the older system, ended in the 1980s, under which the government funded cheaper education in the belief it was a social good. In his explanation of the plan, White House National Economic Council Director Bharat Ramamurti told reporters today that “87% of the dollars…are going to people making under $75,000 a year, and 0 dollars, 0%, are going to anybody making over $125,000 in individual income.” He told them it was “instructive” to compare this plan “to what the Republican tax bill did in 2017. It’s basically the reverse. Fifteen percent of the benefits went to people making under $75,000 a year, and 85% went to people making over $75,000 a year. And if you zoom in even more on that, people making over $250,000 a year got nearly half of the benefits of the GOP tax bill and are getting 0 dollars under our [plan].”
We continue to forget that many of Trump's most vocal and vicious supporters benefited from that 2017 tax bill.
I think Biden providing debt relief for student loans is an important step forward given rising college and living costs for so many young people. But I think it is important to remember that 2 out of 3 American voters DO NOT have a college degree. While some may have taken out some college loans, the vast majority of these working class voters will not benefit from this debt relief. I think it would be important for Biden to develop and implement programs where those who are not seeking a college degree would get subsidized for vocational education and job training (and living costs while doing it) that is comparable to this debt relief package for those in college. We need to start making jobs that do not require a college degree respectable and desirable and one way to do this is to provide financial relief for those seeking careers not involving college. This is also an issue that the GOP can make lots of noise about given that since 2012 more non-college educated voters have left the Democratic party and are voting more with Republicans and this is a large number of Americans. Biden needs to remember that he is president to ALL Americans and this includes the majority of voters who do not have a college degree.
That is a very important point. The militant right is composed of disenfranchised white males for the most part. They have a gut response to their perceived disadvantage to people of color and women who have been (in their estimation) handed favors by the Dems. I hope that the jobs portion of the IRA is visible to them and that other benefits can be felt.
WaPo’s editorial reinforces my decision to drop the subscription to those hypocrites now running the publication.
As noted with the $1.6 billion in stock given to a new SuperPAC to be run by Leo. Leo, the federalist society ‘capo’, the transfer will costs $400 million in potential taxes to the Federal treasury. How come their is no outcry from the right wing hypocrites?
I and every other taxpayer are ineffect subsidizing the ‘gift’ to a cause that will eventually use its resources destroy democracy!
I tried to read the whole editorial online but I couldn't get to it because I would have to subscribe. I don't want to!!!! And I don't need to now that I get Robert Hubbell and Heather Cox Richardson in my mailbox nearly every day! $50/yr hardly seems adequate, yet as a senior on SS only, I'm so grateful!!
Bad faith indeed. I agree that Barr should face repercussions. On another note, I found another great group working for change: Third Act. Initially founded to work for progress on climate change, they are also branching out. Check them out!
I read with interest today especially on the media recognizing “shifting winds” favoring Democrats. You and many of us believed in those winds. On a side note, Mueller never looked for collusion with Russia. That’s not a crime; conspiracy would be the crime. There obviously was collusion, but not enough evidence to prosecute for conspiracy. This makes the internal memo even more damning because it rewards obstruction that prevents finding adequate evidence to prosecute.
My husband and I zoomed your suggested FOCUS ON DEMOCRACY webinar on the group Working America last night. What a powerfully organized and energizing presentation. Highly recommend publicizing the next such presentation as this group helps us know where to send money that will have the greatest impact and it is research tested. We signed up to be co-hosts in September. Thanks for informing us about this effort. Your readers are a perfect audience!
I just finished reading the Fact Sheet for Student Loans and I almost cried. For one, it is such a reasonable document and so overdue that I couldn't believe anyone would fight against it. Number two, it was clearly written and easy to understand. It was straightforward and absent of the often convoluted language used in government documents. This is terrific and as for being a "step toward socialism," that is complete nonsense. A functioning democracy needs an educated and skilled citizenry. Norway figured out some time ago that burdening young people starting out with debt meant fewer taxes being paid to the government over time. I am delighted to see yet another "promise being kept." Rejoice!
I proudly call myself a social democrat from the state of Bernie Sanders. That's not quite the same thing as a socialist. When will we as a nation finally see how tawdry and selfish our collective persona has become? Trump and his followers personify that attitude, and we are in a struggle against humanity's worse traits: greed, selfishness, belligerence and ignorance.
She did. but unfortunately that clip is only being seen by people who are already sympathetic to her POV. The point about the Pell grants should have been front and center of Biden's spin about the decision and pushed to all the news organizations.
Turning "whataboutism" on its ear: "While the Post’s objection is technically true, it is also true for the following subsidies and credits: Trump’s 2017 tax cut for millionaires, oil company subsidies, export subsidies for US manufacturers, auto industry subsidies, lower tax rates for hedge fund managers (“carried interest deduction”), 100% deductibility for yachts purchased for “business purposes,” and deduction for 100% of the future depreciation for private jets in their first year of service."
Many thanks, Robert.
Thanks
Goodness, Mr. Hubbell,
Talk about a thorough shellacking! I have rarely read such a razor-sharp and finely detailed reading of the political landscape. Your opinions are clear and your analysis is balanced. A rare combination.
And a welcome one!
Great Today's Edition today, I do hope you give some space to recognize Charlie Crist's win as Florida's Democratic nominee to take on Ron DeSantis as governor in November. We in Florida know that Charlie Crist winning in November is a huge step in returning respectable leadership under the rule of law and the Constitution. Everything is on the line, for Florida and our nation. As Senior Advisor, Women for Crist, we are working to activate women voters all across our state, of every stripe, Dems, Rs, NPA, whatever! Our freedoms as women are on this November ballot. Make no mistake that abortion bans and criminalization are on the table. With a lot of hard work, we can WIN this! Yes we can!
Yes !! Loved Crist’s messaging after his win. Such a contrast to Rubio and DeSantis blathering !
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2022/08/24/charlie-crist-desantis-florida-governor-race-new-day-intvu-sot-vpx.cnn
Thanks for sharing this. My brother now lives in Florida and he's planning a road trip as soon as he can to get away from De Santis. He's worked in government all his life and he loathes this guy. I like Mr. Crist's message. I think it's going to resonate with lots and lots of people in Florida who don't like being labeled by Mr. De Santis' hate and fear campaign.
You tell ‘em Susan! The Sunshine State may still be redeemed!
Yes, yes, yes. Win Florida, please do. De Santis is a beast. Good luck to you!!
Thank you for your good work!
I’m as happy as anyone to see that Pay Ryan defeated Molinaro in NY-19’s special election. Pat’s a terrific candidate who has been able to succeed even in R-leaning districts. Molinaro has a lot of baggage at this point (his plan to allocate American Rescue Plan funds to enhance the local stadium—which he had to retract— is perhaps his largest albatross) I wouldn’t call it a “shellacking”, though, as Ryan won by 3,000 votes. That’s better than only 300, but no matter how you spin it, once again: MOST PEOPLE DIDN’T VOTE. I know all the usual reasons (it’s August, people are on vacation, blahblahblah) but complacency is our worst enemy.
I wonder if voting was low (was it actually lower then usual?) because the polls so clearly called it for the Pub…
If so, it may give voters more impetus to vote, no matter what the polls say. One hopes…
I’m not sure if voting was lower than usual, because our district’s boundaries cross more than one county, and as far as I can tell, stats are gathered by county board of elections (if that makes sense). All I can tell is that a helluva lot more are registered to vote than cast ballots.
I agree with that, but I think also that New York changed the date of their primary recently. If I am right about that, it might well have affected the turnout.
THat’s correct. And some people vote in a different location for a special election than for a general election.
Confusion seems to be an important part of voter suppression.
I think we have to continue to remind ourselves that people who want to suppress the vote are not people who favor free and fair elections or democracy. I think that is worth reminding ourselves over and over again. They do not want democracy.
I want to comment on the TIMING of Biden’s action to cancel some student loan debt. I think it shows that Biden and/or his advisors are very smart. Had he taken this step six months or a year ago as the disillusioned young voters wished, the cries of the editorialists would have been deafening - and no one would have been listening. The subject would have been added into the snowballing anti-Bidenism.
It would have been even worse three months ago when gas actually was $6 a gallon.
But now is the perfect time for this move as the post-Labor Day political season approaches. Republicans can’t wait to attack the plan, but it’s election season , and like moths to a flame, they are adding another unpopular position to the Dobbs and anti-democracy baggage they are already carrying.
How many tens of millions of VOTERS will Joe’s imperfect plan help? How many will vote for Republicans, because of its imperfections? ‘Nuf said.
How many will vote for Democrats because of this? An estimated 20M will see their debt eliminated! You think that's peanuts? Many more D votes out of this than R votes for sure. Why would the dissatisfied vote R? The Republicans don't offer more relief. Perhaps they don't vote, but not a major loss.
From what I've seen, the Republicans don't offer anything other than tax breaks for the wealthy and your usual, "let's gut government." That's no way to go.
That's been a dilemma for decades. The R's call fiscal mismanagement on any plan that benefits....are you ready....BIPOC! Plus just plain middle class folks. I will never quite understand why so many Americans spite themselves by identifying with the party that gives and gives to the wealthy and corporations.
I understand what you’re saying but hope that the “dissatisfied “ do vote. Otherwise their absence will, in effect, be a vote for Republicans. Every vote matters!
That's a good comment. Timing is everything, but having a clear, intelligent, and well-thought-out Student Loan program helps as well.
Loan forgiveness is essential. Those who are wealthy often gained through inheritance. There is simply no equation that justifies wealthy people being able to go bankrupt, as Trump did, paying maybe .10 on the dollar because of his egoic buildings and then turning around and denying it to the people who have to deal with climate change! This is certainly intersectionalism at its finest. I think today, everything being so transparent, that the very wealthy believing that they did it all themselves, that their mothers didn't sacrifice, their fathers didn't panic, is nonsense.
Just wanted to chime in to say that I had the misfortune to work for Barr for a few months. After my first meeting with him where he demonstrated a complete ignorance and disdain for my area of legal practice, I sought new employment. And yet he’s still a member of the bar.
Assume you had to sanitize or destroy the clothes you were wearing after being exposed to that slimy creature!
I'm glad to hear that. I watched Barr during the January 6 hearings and he seemed both arrogant and obnoxious. Self-satisfied. Plus, his redaction of The Mueller Report really bugged me. Glad you found a new boss.
I watched Pat Ryan being interviewed last night on the NewsHour. What an articulate and thoughtful person! I agree he clearly won because of the positions he promoted. But he also has a manner and a sense of leadership that is very compelling. Bright future for future Rep Ryan!
Comment about:
"The main driver of that uptick in Democratic enthusiasm is the Supreme Court decision overturning Roe v. Wade, and the poll finds 58% of voters disapproving of that decision, versus 38% who approve."
While polls are interesting and we can learn from them, they really tell one part of a story. "58%" is great - but only if this poll is really representing people who really vote. Are these registered voters? Are these voters leaving the polling booth? My point is that the "Democratic disapproval enthusiasm" may be well over 58%. Perhaps the backlash against "Dobbs" and state level authoritarianism will be bigger than we anticipated. Hope so.
As to all the blather about student debt, I think we are lost in the weeds here. The WaPo editorial is a page out of a Jeff Bezos libertarian playbook. A modern, fully equal society would pay for ALL education from daycare to employment. Biden's debt forgiveness by executive order is a wonderful beginning.
Next, cancel all student debt. Then make education a human right in the richest country to have ever existed. There is plenty of money for this.
Other nations do it. It's no different than health care. You either care about all your citizens ... or you don't! It's up to our Congress to make it happen. Maybe such will be the case if the broad population is ever represented properly - instead of being dominated by a bigoted minority.
Sigh, I think those polls are done by non- humans such as Puxatawny Phil and mice in a maze.
“ While polls are interesting and we can learn from them, they really tell one part of a story. "58%" is great - but only if this poll is really representing people who really vote. Are these registered voters? Are these voters leaving the polling booth? My point is that the "Democratic disapproval enthusiasm" may be well over 58%.”
Or, alternately, maybe no matter what it is, voters will still choose Dems over crazed pubs
Agree with you about Ryan’s interview on the News Hour. Very impressive and a vet to boot.
Bob:
I am happy that the Barr memo was released by Merrick Garland who by pursuing the appeal did all that was necessary to defend the indefensible position that the memos should not be released.
In addition to all your strong points rejecting the student loan forgiveness editorial in the ( let us not forget )Jeff Bezos owned Washington Post one can add the following from today's newsletter from Heather Cox Richardson :
"Canceling a portion of student debt is a resumption of the older system, ended in the 1980s, under which the government funded cheaper education in the belief it was a social good. In his explanation of the plan, White House National Economic Council Director Bharat Ramamurti told reporters today that “87% of the dollars…are going to people making under $75,000 a year, and 0 dollars, 0%, are going to anybody making over $125,000 in individual income.” He told them it was “instructive” to compare this plan “to what the Republican tax bill did in 2017. It’s basically the reverse. Fifteen percent of the benefits went to people making under $75,000 a year, and 85% went to people making over $75,000 a year. And if you zoom in even more on that, people making over $250,000 a year got nearly half of the benefits of the GOP tax bill and are getting 0 dollars under our [plan].”
We continue to forget that many of Trump's most vocal and vicious supporters benefited from that 2017 tax bill.
I think Biden providing debt relief for student loans is an important step forward given rising college and living costs for so many young people. But I think it is important to remember that 2 out of 3 American voters DO NOT have a college degree. While some may have taken out some college loans, the vast majority of these working class voters will not benefit from this debt relief. I think it would be important for Biden to develop and implement programs where those who are not seeking a college degree would get subsidized for vocational education and job training (and living costs while doing it) that is comparable to this debt relief package for those in college. We need to start making jobs that do not require a college degree respectable and desirable and one way to do this is to provide financial relief for those seeking careers not involving college. This is also an issue that the GOP can make lots of noise about given that since 2012 more non-college educated voters have left the Democratic party and are voting more with Republicans and this is a large number of Americans. Biden needs to remember that he is president to ALL Americans and this includes the majority of voters who do not have a college degree.
That is a very important point. The militant right is composed of disenfranchised white males for the most part. They have a gut response to their perceived disadvantage to people of color and women who have been (in their estimation) handed favors by the Dems. I hope that the jobs portion of the IRA is visible to them and that other benefits can be felt.
WaPo’s editorial reinforces my decision to drop the subscription to those hypocrites now running the publication.
As noted with the $1.6 billion in stock given to a new SuperPAC to be run by Leo. Leo, the federalist society ‘capo’, the transfer will costs $400 million in potential taxes to the Federal treasury. How come their is no outcry from the right wing hypocrites?
I and every other taxpayer are ineffect subsidizing the ‘gift’ to a cause that will eventually use its resources destroy democracy!
I tried to read the whole editorial online but I couldn't get to it because I would have to subscribe. I don't want to!!!! And I don't need to now that I get Robert Hubbell and Heather Cox Richardson in my mailbox nearly every day! $50/yr hardly seems adequate, yet as a senior on SS only, I'm so grateful!!
Me too.
Bad faith indeed. I agree that Barr should face repercussions. On another note, I found another great group working for change: Third Act. Initially founded to work for progress on climate change, they are also branching out. Check them out!
Recall Barr’s comment about the report formed the gop sound bite used to support the amoral criminal trump!
I read with interest today especially on the media recognizing “shifting winds” favoring Democrats. You and many of us believed in those winds. On a side note, Mueller never looked for collusion with Russia. That’s not a crime; conspiracy would be the crime. There obviously was collusion, but not enough evidence to prosecute for conspiracy. This makes the internal memo even more damning because it rewards obstruction that prevents finding adequate evidence to prosecute.
My husband and I zoomed your suggested FOCUS ON DEMOCRACY webinar on the group Working America last night. What a powerfully organized and energizing presentation. Highly recommend publicizing the next such presentation as this group helps us know where to send money that will have the greatest impact and it is research tested. We signed up to be co-hosts in September. Thanks for informing us about this effort. Your readers are a perfect audience!
Onward!!
I just finished reading the Fact Sheet for Student Loans and I almost cried. For one, it is such a reasonable document and so overdue that I couldn't believe anyone would fight against it. Number two, it was clearly written and easy to understand. It was straightforward and absent of the often convoluted language used in government documents. This is terrific and as for being a "step toward socialism," that is complete nonsense. A functioning democracy needs an educated and skilled citizenry. Norway figured out some time ago that burdening young people starting out with debt meant fewer taxes being paid to the government over time. I am delighted to see yet another "promise being kept." Rejoice!
I proudly call myself a social democrat from the state of Bernie Sanders. That's not quite the same thing as a socialist. When will we as a nation finally see how tawdry and selfish our collective persona has become? Trump and his followers personify that attitude, and we are in a struggle against humanity's worse traits: greed, selfishness, belligerence and ignorance.
Last night on Alex Wagner’s show, Elizabeth Warren shredded the Republicans argument and Tom Cotton in particular. https://www.msnbc.com/alex-wagner-tonight/watch/-bring-it-on-warren-unbowed-by-gop-attacks-on-widely-popular-student-loan-debt-relief-146946629983
She did. but unfortunately that clip is only being seen by people who are already sympathetic to her POV. The point about the Pell grants should have been front and center of Biden's spin about the decision and pushed to all the news organizations.