He and Trump say she could have passed an executive "bill" and it would have been effective immediately. Skipped Civics class in 10th grade, AND briefings
Why is abortion the ONLY healthcare where voters get to set a standard of care state by state - rather than physicians setting the standard of medical care? If you are bleeding to death in NY or Texas, the standard treatment options are the same.
Unfortunately, many of those old, male GOP lawmakers don't seem to have a basic understanding of how a woman's body works at all, much less our hearts and minds.
Absolutely. Males “of a certain age“ aren’t up to it. Too secret and icky. All that blood! And that’s just the everyday stuff. Pregnancy? Except for the start, way too complicated for their delicate brains and sensibilities.
This is not just about a medical procedure, it's about your religious beliefs and your morality. The church (and those that use religious beliefs) has decided that life begins at conception and our governing body will not refute that. This is NOT about a medical procedure, it's about the church controlling what they see as "fact" and continuing to keep women in their place as second class citizines, adhereing to the churches proclamation that man is head of the household, head of the church and women need to recognize their place is to support that. They couldn't care less about the fetus or the child that is born or their policies would reflect that.
Your point here, and women's right to make decisions about their own bodies seem to me to be the pillars of the case for abortion rights, and the need for them to be consistent from state to state, the exact opposite of what the GOP is peddling. I believe that trump is insisting that "everyone" wanted the question to go to the states, and that it's working great and everyone is happy, because he thought it would protect him from having to state any consistent beliefs about abortion.
Doesn't Vance know what the job of Vice President is, and the Constitution gives the VP none of the ability to do any of the things he says she should have done while VP? I worry about what he thinks his job will entail if he and trump win the election, and/or Vance ascends to the Presidency. Were the moderators aware of the limitations of what a VP can do legally and should they have stopped Vance from posing such questions? I wish Walz had pointed out that much of the Biden/Harris policy could not be accomplished because he and his Republican colleagues blocked them in Congress?
This was exactly what I was thinking. I was very disappointed that Walz did not point out to Vance and the viewers that the vice president does not have the powers he is blaming Harris for not using. Vance even referred to the Harris Biden administration!
Absolutely! I believe he intends to invoke the 25th Amendment to push Trump out as soon as possible after the election so he can take his “rightful” place at the head of the table. And I’m not happy that he “sane-washed” Trump by making him sound more reasonable, even though everything out of his mouth was a lie.
Agree. Within the year Trump will either be removed because of his dementia or he’ll cite poor health and go back to Mar-a-Lago to play golf and be tended to by nursing staff. Vance will pardon him of his crimes.
You're probably right and this line of thought absolutely needs to start getting more air time! It is the only plausible explanation for leaving Trump where he is, shielding and sane-washing him as much as possible. No wonder Vance is smirking all the time.
That’s my most terrifying fear, he’s fully capable of helping to implement his 2025 agenda, and honestly I believe if trump somehow wins this election he will be unseated by Vance
Had an online drinking game with friends where you had to drink every time Vance claimed that Harris failed to “fix” something in the last 4 years or personally created some problem. Lots of drinking happened.
and you got drunk! she had no game in creating nor fixing anything!!! not one mention about the ROLE of the VP!!! What about a congress that was against any legislation that was progressive or on the right side of the law and the people
I'm his defense he probably thinks the President should govern as a king... Alternatively, he may just believe the American electorate is stupid enough to fall for that lie and maybe he's right. There are too many people in this country across all political spectrums that have no idea how laws actually get passed.
If the president governs as King, that still makes the VP powerless. Vance is lusting after the Presidency every bit as much as he may (or may not have) lusted for a sofa. If I were Trump I'd keep a VERY close eye on Vance and the people with whom he meets.
One wonders if anyone has tried to tell Mr Pumpkinhead about this?? In his current narcissistic fog, he might not be capable of figuring it out or believing it.
Walz missed literally dozens of opportunities to point out that Harris (as VP) has/had virtually NO power over any of the dozens of items and "problems" that were broached and handily dumped unceremoniously in her lap during this "debate". I kept expecting him to bring this up. Evidently, this wasn't "The Plan". His "handlers" (Democratic "... powers that be"?) had apparently steered him far away from it. I don't believe that Biden's name was ever even mentioned. Do you suppose Biden ... the Biden camp ... forbade it? Too many sensitive toes? "Let's let olde Joe go in peace"? Are we supposed to think that the audience had NO appreciation of this reality? I can see the reasoning ... but as it went down, I'm afraid that Vance "walzed" away with it.
I dunno. Personally, I think there are plenty of people out there who resent "those over-educated elites who think they are so much better than we are...".
My own father, (may he rest in peace) would have been a prime example of such angry people. He didn't believe in college (waste of money) and he really disliked and distrusted "education". There are still plenty of those folks out there.
Yes I agree unfortunately Dan. I think sadly this one went to the Republicans and I LOVE Tim Walz (!) but he was right, it's not a good debater. However he got really really good and by the last third he was great. Well he didn't smile. But it was very good. It's just I feel like most people probably tuned out after the first 15 minutes…
Is he planning ahead to when he has Trump dragged off using the 25th A??? Vance is a not a fool but despite his "education", he's not very bright--his belief in every ultra right wing conspiracy theory that he meets is killing his intellect. Yes, Vance is brighter than Trump---but whoa, that is a pitifully low bar!
And Walz pointed out that it’s Wall Street corporations that buy up houses and resell at exorbitant prices! And JD thinks we can build houses on federal land while we’re drilling for oil in the national parks.
And if it is empty it might be because there are no cities nearby or jobs for people who would suddenly live in the houses that were built on these empty lands.
Yes I was yelling at the TV at that point.... Vance was doubling down any chance he got on blaming undocumented immigrants, and even tried to insinuate that Haitian immigrants here on a TPS Visa were "illegal" but he got interrupted and his mike got cut off.
And then this morning the TV news said that both of their mics were cut off because they were having a dispute. But the moderators had told him to stop four or five times before they muted him.
Whatever you heard this morning about the reason for killing the mics, it seemed like Vance was talking over moderator attempts to go to the next question, and caused the disturbance.
A leading strategy of the GOP is to say, "A better question would have been, ..." or "I don't know, but what I DO know is..." and then spouting out their rehearsed talking points. When stopped, JDV would not stop blabbing, and prevented the moderator from moving on. That's when they needed silence.
He is a good talker, but almost everything out of his mouth is a lie. Walz is not as polished but has the facts on his side. CBS not doing fact checks favors Vance. This debate will not change anyones mind, anyone swayed by Vances bullshit was voting for Trump anyhow.
Andy, “ Walz is not as polished but has the facts on his side. ” is the same statement as after Biden’s debate. The format favors a liar. It look liked Walz was over prepped, tired and tense. He had to defend the Dem record AND counter the incredulous lies. Exhausting.
I disagree. Walz had facts on his side and quickly overcame his nerves. He got Vance on ACA, Reproductive Services, Democracy and Vance’s inability to admit Trump lost the election. Vance is a slick liar and it showed. Walz is a very competent leader and administrator and it shows.
Those of us in a certain demographic group will appreciate something that came from the Joyce Vance watch party: JD Vance is the Eddie Haskell of current politics.
I think Tim did just what the campaign instructed him to do. But I wish they had let him be more authentically himself -affable, witty and also caustic when warranted.
I’ve already turned it off because I’m tired of listening to JD Vance’s lies and unfortunately, because he is not Trump, he can string two sentences together and sound like he knows what he’s talking about to someone who doesn’t really pay attention to politics and doesn’t understand that when the Rs lips are moving, they’re lying/exaggerating. One of the things about housing, if you want it affordable, is to stop letting ppl like Trump buy up all the housing to get rich off the backs of ppl who would like an actual roof over their head and not a cardboard one. Drill baby drill, yeah, like that will help climate change, along with the fact that do they really think those companies would lower prices here by drilling more. Hell no! they’d be sending the stuff overseas to make more money. Shame so many people are part of the Republican cult or have no clue what these politicians on the right intend as they lie out their eye teeth.
Walz has missed so many oppos to fight back!
Imagine wearing these kinds of t-shirts in a red state 👇
"because he is not Trump, he can string two sentences together and sound like he knows what he’s talking about to someone who doesn’t really pay attention to politics and doesn’t understand that when the Rs lips are moving, they’re lying/exaggerating."
And this is what makes Vance really dangerous if Trump were to win. Chances of Vance becoming president before a Trump term ended would be really high.
Ahh. But all Vance had to do to 'win' was to be ' more likable.'
The question was whether we'd get Trump's yap dog or the Yale lawyer who did all those book tours. Vance played 'that' well.
Biggest laugh: Trump saved the ACA.
Biggest missed opportunity: To refute Trump Vance lie about 'illegal immigrants' bringing illegal guns and crime to the US. Actually many immigrants are seeking asylum because the US has exported criminals and guns to Central America.
Biggest unforced error: Not pointing out the institutional difference between president and vice president. Debunk the GOP lie of a
I agree that the Vance lie about illegal immigrants bringing weapons into the U.S. was a miss. The data, a/w/a the major complaint from the Mexican authorities, is that most guns in Mexico, used by the cartels, come from the U.S. The same thing concerning fentanyl smuggling. More fentanyl is smuggled into the U.S. through the border gates, many by U.S. citizens used as "mules," not those trying to sneak into the country illegally.
Yes, he's very clever. During the debate he didn't repeat some of the things he was criticized for recently...instead he walked just close enough to the line that one could think he didn't really mean what he previously said, but leaving him free to continue to act on his beliefs without looking bad at the debate. He made it seem like he and Walz had the same take on an issue while he tried to work around to a GOP position. I noticed this especially on abortion, child care, immigration, gun safety....um, pretty much every issue? I found his "pleasant" affect kind of creepy by the end.
Exactly. But somehow I feel like I’ve never heard a politician actually say those words when defending reproductive freedom. Yet I constantly hear pro-lifers refer to those who are pro-choice as pro-abortion. It’s maddening. I don’t WANT my daughter to need an abortion. I want my daughter to have autonomy over her body.
Women protesting have said it over and over and over. I bet it's on a protest sign somewhere. MAGA doesn't want pro choice to be used because it's not ugly enough. They want women who choose abortion to be guilty of something terrible. They do not trust women, and do not want them to have a choice.
I'll just add here that after Vance insisted he knew what the MN law said about late-term abortions and Walz said that's not what the law says, I had to look it up. It's basically 180 degrees opposite what Vance said. Something like, if the baby comes out alive, health care providers will do everything in their power to save the baby. I don't blame Walz for not being able to quote the law right there on stage, but it was obnoxious for Vance to insist on an incorrect reading of the law. And, to be clear, no woman in her right mind would wait till the last month of 9 months of pregnancy and then say, I don't want this baby. I assert the only time someone would elect an abortion then is because the baby isn't viable, or the mother's life is in jeopardy. If the child is alive, then that would be a huge miracle surprise and yes, everyone would try to keep the baby alive.
It doesn't matter. CBS let him relentlessly lie without correction so that is now the truth to his supporters. Once again the media fails to do its fucking job.
Trump's has accused Democrats repeatedly of allowing "abortion" at nine months of pregnancy. Of course that is preposterous. As a health care provider, no doctor, their license nor Hippocratic Oath would allow a full term infant to be aborted and die. Infants born prematurely are given life-saving care in a neonatal intensive care unit. Tonight JD Vance continued the misinformation. This is why state legislators, who have no medical expertise nor understand women's reproductive physiology, should not be making decisions to determine what reproductive care is appropriate.
I was a 7-month pre-me when my mother had kidney failure, and I was delivered by C-section in 1939 and am healthy now - do the math! How could a doctor NOT now do everything possible to save a pre-me?
When I was a 13 yr old candy striper in a Catholic pediatric ward, I saw how the Catholics dealt with a born child with severe defects. They made it comfortable (likely with drugs) and allowed it to die. The parents were of course devastated. How much more compassionate an early abortion would have been.
It’s political malpractice by the Harris-Walz campaign team for Walz not to know what’s in a bill HE SIGNED when it is their number one animating issue. His performance was severely lacking for someone with his experience in politics.
I'll just add that "late term" means different things to different people. By medical professional definition, the vast majority of abortions are performed in the first trimester or about 12 weeks. Having worked in a NICU, I know that if a "failed abortion" at 12 weeks resulted in a fetus that maybe took a few breathe or briefly had a heartbeat, the technology does not exist to keep that fetus alive. They are too small and too fragile to even survive resuscitation attempt. The number of abortions decreases as the pregnancy progresses, and the reasons to choose an abortion become more complicated and heartbreaking, usually involving serious medical conditions for the mother and or baby. MAGA people don't want to know that. They don't want to believe that even if a woman decided she really just didn't want to have that baby after all, where would she find a medical professional willing to accommodate her..? Before they speak in public, Vance and others like him should be required to study the statistics and individual cases of women who have chosen to terminate a pregnancy after about 23 or 24 weeks, or later, depending on when the baby's or mothers critical situation is discovered. Do they really think they have the right to deny the woman a choice? If every life has value doesn't that include the mother's?
I wish Walz hammered JD for saying the democratic process was messy (states enacting draconian abortion laws). Walz could have added after his response where he brought up the woman (forgive me I don’t remember her name) likely lost her ability to have children that this isn’t messy it’s horrible. It’s despicable.
Danged if he did (constantly fact checking), danged if he didn’t. By doing so, he’d have to be spending all his time covering stuff up
like a cat in a sandbox and no time to do any of his own business. I think DT will be pretty darn angry at Vance because of some of the “nice” ways/things he came across!!?
Vance is slick and a good speaker. Tim is nervous and talks too quickly. But Tim is far better on substance. I just hope that viewers are not bamboozled by Vance’s style.
He’s good at lying and twisting himself inside out to act like he has a clue. Immigrant immigrant immigrant. WE’RE A NATION BUILT ON THE BACKS OF IMMIGRANTS!!!! Helloooooo. (Sorry to yell). jerkydumbassvicious is very good at spewing BS. He’s pro family, not pro women. Invoked the name of ‘Christ.’ What happened to the separation of church and state? Why does he assume the nation is Christian?? I’m offended by that…as a Jewish woman and an American. I apologize if I’m chasing squirrels. I feel my brain exploding and my ears are bleeding. WAIT!!!! He just said orange oompa loompa peacefully transferred power on Jan. 20th???!!! OMG. I have to stop. My apologies.
I’ve been asking the same question, what happened to separation of church and state. I was born and raised in New York, this is not a Christian nation. What happened to the part of the First Amendment, you remember, the part that says we will establish no religion. I’m so pissed. Please forgive the rant.
I love how Walz is concentrating on Vance's comments and preparing to respond. I also love how Walz is FACT CHECKING Vance since the moderators aren't. Walz win!!!
Off topic… I’d like to take a moment to wish my new Jewish friends Happy Rosh Hashana!! May you be written in the Book of Life for another year! 🍎 🍯 ✡️
Vance lied and evaded questions for sure but Tim evaded the Tianamen Square question sadly and just seemed ill-at-ease until the very end. A substance win but maybe not a vibe. Probably won't make any difference in the long run.
I'm with you Jane. Because I keep watching it from the point of view of undecideds, especially as I'm here in northern Wisconsin trying to sway them… You had to be smart and informed to realize how much JD is lying. Did you listen to some of the undecided votersquestioned afterward? They all were thinking that… I mean they were literally going to base their whole vote on that debate… You have to know, you have to be informed and understand that he's LYING!!!!!!!
CBS had a fact-checking website that was suspended a little more than halfway through the debate, which roughly-speaking had at least 75-25% more totally or partially false statements by Vance than by Walz. I searched after the debate for the promised continuation, but I could find none. And that is when Vance went over the top with lies.
Was so happy when Walz pointed out he tried to kill it repeatedly and would have succeeded without Mccain stepping in. Imagine how many more people would have died during covid if Trump had succeeded in killing it.
They are Vance’s outrageous lies and beliefs also.
Vance had two goals. Don’t look weird and be nice to the nice guy.
Oh, one more. Say the words “The Harris administration” over and over again.
I guess they are projecting she will win.
I also wonder where he got the “900 page policy” idea from. Project 2025 is about 900 pages.
I don’t want to second guess Walz. I think he did great. But I wish someone would have asked Vance about writing the forward for the 2025 book they aren’t releasing until AFTER the election.
I feel like Vance is telling a lot of lies and is slinging a lot of blame on Kamala — and no fact checking ugh! I think Walz is doing a great job setting him straight!
Totally agree that Vance was blaming Kamala for issues that were out of her control. He might have gone to Yale but did he take a basic Civic class? The VP does not have the authority that she was being faulted for. On the other hand, why didn't Tim Walz come back and push the issue that she was the VP and not the President to make "rules"? Vance also complained that he was fact-checked. Oh so sorry the lies just were so obvious!
In the last 5-10 minutes of the debate, Tim Walz shined! Vance proved he would not have stood up to Democracy as did Pence.
Why does Vance think a Vice President has the power to create and pass laws unilaterally?
He and Trump say she could have passed an executive "bill" and it would have been effective immediately. Skipped Civics class in 10th grade, AND briefings
Why is abortion the ONLY healthcare where voters get to set a standard of care state by state - rather than physicians setting the standard of medical care? If you are bleeding to death in NY or Texas, the standard treatment options are the same.
Unless you are bleeding from your uterus.
Oh no! That’s not good enough for republicans anymore. You need to be septic, in organ failure and near death.
If your bleeding from your uterus, this last place you want to be is in Texas or Florida!
Biology of women does not vary across state lines.
Unfortunately, many of those old, male GOP lawmakers don't seem to have a basic understanding of how a woman's body works at all, much less our hearts and minds.
Absolutely. Males “of a certain age“ aren’t up to it. Too secret and icky. All that blood! And that’s just the everyday stuff. Pregnancy? Except for the start, way too complicated for their delicate brains and sensibilities.
This is not just about a medical procedure, it's about your religious beliefs and your morality. The church (and those that use religious beliefs) has decided that life begins at conception and our governing body will not refute that. This is NOT about a medical procedure, it's about the church controlling what they see as "fact" and continuing to keep women in their place as second class citizines, adhereing to the churches proclamation that man is head of the household, head of the church and women need to recognize their place is to support that. They couldn't care less about the fetus or the child that is born or their policies would reflect that.
Excellent point!
Your point here, and women's right to make decisions about their own bodies seem to me to be the pillars of the case for abortion rights, and the need for them to be consistent from state to state, the exact opposite of what the GOP is peddling. I believe that trump is insisting that "everyone" wanted the question to go to the states, and that it's working great and everyone is happy, because he thought it would protect him from having to state any consistent beliefs about abortion.
Doesn't Vance know what the job of Vice President is, and the Constitution gives the VP none of the ability to do any of the things he says she should have done while VP? I worry about what he thinks his job will entail if he and trump win the election, and/or Vance ascends to the Presidency. Were the moderators aware of the limitations of what a VP can do legally and should they have stopped Vance from posing such questions? I wish Walz had pointed out that much of the Biden/Harris policy could not be accomplished because he and his Republican colleagues blocked them in Congress?
This was exactly what I was thinking. I was very disappointed that Walz did not point out to Vance and the viewers that the vice president does not have the powers he is blaming Harris for not using. Vance even referred to the Harris Biden administration!
I'm guessing he does know, but that he assumes many listeners don't.
News flash! Turns out John Nance Garner was wrong.! The VP is actually the prime mover and dictator of the government.
Purposeful misdirection
Biden had senate opposition most of the time and no house power all the times
Walz should have pointed that out.
yes. Such POWER a VP has. Runs the whole show. No wonder Vance wants the job. Who needs a president or Congress?
So if he becomes VP he’ll be running the show????
Absolutely! I believe he intends to invoke the 25th Amendment to push Trump out as soon as possible after the election so he can take his “rightful” place at the head of the table. And I’m not happy that he “sane-washed” Trump by making him sound more reasonable, even though everything out of his mouth was a lie.
Agree. Within the year Trump will either be removed because of his dementia or he’ll cite poor health and go back to Mar-a-Lago to play golf and be tended to by nursing staff. Vance will pardon him of his crimes.
Trump is a puppet for Project 2025!
Vance, more so.
He will retire Trump, along with Clarence Thomas and Alito. Then Elon Musk and Vance's billionaire overlord will be running the country.
You're probably right and this line of thought absolutely needs to start getting more air time! It is the only plausible explanation for leaving Trump where he is, shielding and sane-washing him as much as possible. No wonder Vance is smirking all the time.
That’s my most terrifying fear, he’s fully capable of helping to implement his 2025 agenda, and honestly I believe if trump somehow wins this election he will be unseated by Vance
Had an online drinking game with friends where you had to drink every time Vance claimed that Harris failed to “fix” something in the last 4 years or personally created some problem. Lots of drinking happened.
and you got drunk! she had no game in creating nor fixing anything!!! not one mention about the ROLE of the VP!!! What about a congress that was against any legislation that was progressive or on the right side of the law and the people
oh boy, I would've been drunk after 15 minutes!
It began to sound quite ridiculous by the end. I wonder if we'll see it on SNL?
Well, it is the “Harris Regime”! 😂
He kept saying it just to make her look bad. I’m sure there are lots of people who don’t understand a VP role and believed him. Sadly
Because he is just feeding his base what they want to hear, and by repeating it long enough, it becomes reality.
One of Goebbels’ dicta was that if a lie is repeated often enough, it becomes the truth.
I'm his defense he probably thinks the President should govern as a king... Alternatively, he may just believe the American electorate is stupid enough to fall for that lie and maybe he's right. There are too many people in this country across all political spectrums that have no idea how laws actually get passed.
If the president governs as King, that still makes the VP powerless. Vance is lusting after the Presidency every bit as much as he may (or may not have) lusted for a sofa. If I were Trump I'd keep a VERY close eye on Vance and the people with whom he meets.
One wonders if anyone has tried to tell Mr Pumpkinhead about this?? In his current narcissistic fog, he might not be capable of figuring it out or believing it.
Walz missed literally dozens of opportunities to point out that Harris (as VP) has/had virtually NO power over any of the dozens of items and "problems" that were broached and handily dumped unceremoniously in her lap during this "debate". I kept expecting him to bring this up. Evidently, this wasn't "The Plan". His "handlers" (Democratic "... powers that be"?) had apparently steered him far away from it. I don't believe that Biden's name was ever even mentioned. Do you suppose Biden ... the Biden camp ... forbade it? Too many sensitive toes? "Let's let olde Joe go in peace"? Are we supposed to think that the audience had NO appreciation of this reality? I can see the reasoning ... but as it went down, I'm afraid that Vance "walzed" away with it.
Yes, I was wondering the same thing! JD is pretty slick. Sounds intelligent, which is such an improvement over tfg that people will think he's great.
I dunno. Personally, I think there are plenty of people out there who resent "those over-educated elites who think they are so much better than we are...".
My own father, (may he rest in peace) would have been a prime example of such angry people. He didn't believe in college (waste of money) and he really disliked and distrusted "education". There are still plenty of those folks out there.
The Harris campaign wants to avoid appearing to be in a defensive crouch.
That’s one of the reasons they are ill-placed to fact check a continuous flow of lies.
Yes I agree unfortunately Dan. I think sadly this one went to the Republicans and I LOVE Tim Walz (!) but he was right, it's not a good debater. However he got really really good and by the last third he was great. Well he didn't smile. But it was very good. It's just I feel like most people probably tuned out after the first 15 minutes…
And why didn’t Harris or Walz say that during both debates?
He’s projecting.
He skipped Civics class
Just like Trump skipped tarriff class!
Is he planning ahead to when he has Trump dragged off using the 25th A??? Vance is a not a fool but despite his "education", he's not very bright--his belief in every ultra right wing conspiracy theory that he meets is killing his intellect. Yes, Vance is brighter than Trump---but whoa, that is a pitifully low bar!
Cause it stirs up his base!
Maybe caus3 he is hoping to have tgat power?
Who believes Illegal immigrants are flush with 20% cash down payment & are beating out investors buying homes to add to their portfolios.
And Walz pointed out that it’s Wall Street corporations that buy up houses and resell at exorbitant prices! And JD thinks we can build houses on federal land while we’re drilling for oil in the national parks.
Seemed like no one even picked up on that comment.
Just because federal land is "empty" doesn't mean it should be destroyed by "progress".
And where would all the newly housed find employment? Doing what, exactly, on federal lands?
And if it is empty it might be because there are no cities nearby or jobs for people who would suddenly live in the houses that were built on these empty lands.
I was wondering if Vance was thinking about Reservations, as well as National Parks.
Yes I was yelling at the TV at that point.... Vance was doubling down any chance he got on blaming undocumented immigrants, and even tried to insinuate that Haitian immigrants here on a TPS Visa were "illegal" but he got interrupted and his mike got cut off.
Vance blamed everything from climate change to hemorrhoids on illegal immigrants.
And Kamala!
And then this morning the TV news said that both of their mics were cut off because they were having a dispute. But the moderators had told him to stop four or five times before they muted him.
Whatever you heard this morning about the reason for killing the mics, it seemed like Vance was talking over moderator attempts to go to the next question, and caused the disturbance.
A leading strategy of the GOP is to say, "A better question would have been, ..." or "I don't know, but what I DO know is..." and then spouting out their rehearsed talking points. When stopped, JDV would not stop blabbing, and prevented the moderator from moving on. That's when they needed silence.
I was yelling at the TV too! Though I was laughing every time Vance lied. Almost fell out of my chair!!!
Please! It’s not a laughing matter. These lies are ruining peoples lives. See Springfield Ohio.
Thank you for the opportunity to comment.
No one who isn’t MAGA!
Trump voters. They believe every lie offered to them.
Illegal immigrants cannot buy houses
People in rural northern Wisconsin unfortunately.
Those were my thoughts, as well Linda.
Me too!
Vance is a talented liar.
He is a good talker, but almost everything out of his mouth is a lie. Walz is not as polished but has the facts on his side. CBS not doing fact checks favors Vance. This debate will not change anyones mind, anyone swayed by Vances bullshit was voting for Trump anyhow.
Andy, “ Walz is not as polished but has the facts on his side. ” is the same statement as after Biden’s debate. The format favors a liar. It look liked Walz was over prepped, tired and tense. He had to defend the Dem record AND counter the incredulous lies. Exhausting.
I disagree. Walz had facts on his side and quickly overcame his nerves. He got Vance on ACA, Reproductive Services, Democracy and Vance’s inability to admit Trump lost the election. Vance is a slick liar and it showed. Walz is a very competent leader and administrator and it shows.
Seems like he's done a great job in Minnesota.
Yes!
I disagree - Walz did well
Those of us in a certain demographic group will appreciate something that came from the Joyce Vance watch party: JD Vance is the Eddie Haskell of current politics.
I agree that it’s wrong to make one of the candidates fact-check his opponent as well as make substantive answers to a question.
Here is were we needed Pete Buttigieg as VP candidate.
Agreed. Pete would not have let a single lie go unanswered.
I think Tim did just what the campaign instructed him to do. But I wish they had let him be more authentically himself -affable, witty and also caustic when warranted.
Yeah, I think you’re right
I hope you’re right.
I’ve already turned it off because I’m tired of listening to JD Vance’s lies and unfortunately, because he is not Trump, he can string two sentences together and sound like he knows what he’s talking about to someone who doesn’t really pay attention to politics and doesn’t understand that when the Rs lips are moving, they’re lying/exaggerating. One of the things about housing, if you want it affordable, is to stop letting ppl like Trump buy up all the housing to get rich off the backs of ppl who would like an actual roof over their head and not a cardboard one. Drill baby drill, yeah, like that will help climate change, along with the fact that do they really think those companies would lower prices here by drilling more. Hell no! they’d be sending the stuff overseas to make more money. Shame so many people are part of the Republican cult or have no clue what these politicians on the right intend as they lie out their eye teeth.
Walz has missed so many oppos to fight back!
Imagine wearing these kinds of t-shirts in a red state 👇
teespring.com/stores/libtees-2
"because he is not Trump, he can string two sentences together and sound like he knows what he’s talking about to someone who doesn’t really pay attention to politics and doesn’t understand that when the Rs lips are moving, they’re lying/exaggerating."
And this is what makes Vance really dangerous if Trump were to win. Chances of Vance becoming president before a Trump term ended would be really high.
yes walz is not an attack dog - he has been able to work with GOP
Ahh. But all Vance had to do to 'win' was to be ' more likable.'
The question was whether we'd get Trump's yap dog or the Yale lawyer who did all those book tours. Vance played 'that' well.
Biggest laugh: Trump saved the ACA.
Biggest missed opportunity: To refute Trump Vance lie about 'illegal immigrants' bringing illegal guns and crime to the US. Actually many immigrants are seeking asylum because the US has exported criminals and guns to Central America.
Biggest unforced error: Not pointing out the institutional difference between president and vice president. Debunk the GOP lie of a
3 1/2 year 'Harris administration.'
well he certainly wasn’t more likable.
I agree that the Vance lie about illegal immigrants bringing weapons into the U.S. was a miss. The data, a/w/a the major complaint from the Mexican authorities, is that most guns in Mexico, used by the cartels, come from the U.S. The same thing concerning fentanyl smuggling. More fentanyl is smuggled into the U.S. through the border gates, many by U.S. citizens used as "mules," not those trying to sneak into the country illegally.
Exactly. Vance said it over and over and called it "the Harris administration". I didn't see the whole thing, but I never heard Walz call hiim on it.
Agree. It’s infuriating.
Pathological liar🤯😤
Yes, he's very clever. During the debate he didn't repeat some of the things he was criticized for recently...instead he walked just close enough to the line that one could think he didn't really mean what he previously said, but leaving him free to continue to act on his beliefs without looking bad at the debate. He made it seem like he and Walz had the same take on an issue while he tried to work around to a GOP position. I noticed this especially on abortion, child care, immigration, gun safety....um, pretty much every issue? I found his "pleasant" affect kind of creepy by the end.
Very good!
Vance is pretending to be nice. It’s nauseating.
My 3 beautiful children, my beautiful wife. Blah, blah! Wow, better not be just plain...
I think that at this point for both? No harm, no foul!! No one will change their mind. At least it’s fairly civil—my take.
But—I love the fact that Walz stated it wasn’t about abortion but about women to choose ! Best line of any!
it's the closest i've ever seen to a politician making the point that democrats are not 'pro-abortion' they are pro-CHOICE.
I just really think no one is PRO abortion. Who would choose to go through something like that...
Exactly. But somehow I feel like I’ve never heard a politician actually say those words when defending reproductive freedom. Yet I constantly hear pro-lifers refer to those who are pro-choice as pro-abortion. It’s maddening. I don’t WANT my daughter to need an abortion. I want my daughter to have autonomy over her body.
Women protesting have said it over and over and over. I bet it's on a protest sign somewhere. MAGA doesn't want pro choice to be used because it's not ugly enough. They want women who choose abortion to be guilty of something terrible. They do not trust women, and do not want them to have a choice.
I'll just add here that after Vance insisted he knew what the MN law said about late-term abortions and Walz said that's not what the law says, I had to look it up. It's basically 180 degrees opposite what Vance said. Something like, if the baby comes out alive, health care providers will do everything in their power to save the baby. I don't blame Walz for not being able to quote the law right there on stage, but it was obnoxious for Vance to insist on an incorrect reading of the law. And, to be clear, no woman in her right mind would wait till the last month of 9 months of pregnancy and then say, I don't want this baby. I assert the only time someone would elect an abortion then is because the baby isn't viable, or the mother's life is in jeopardy. If the child is alive, then that would be a huge miracle surprise and yes, everyone would try to keep the baby alive.
It doesn't matter. CBS let him relentlessly lie without correction so that is now the truth to his supporters. Once again the media fails to do its fucking job.
Trump's has accused Democrats repeatedly of allowing "abortion" at nine months of pregnancy. Of course that is preposterous. As a health care provider, no doctor, their license nor Hippocratic Oath would allow a full term infant to be aborted and die. Infants born prematurely are given life-saving care in a neonatal intensive care unit. Tonight JD Vance continued the misinformation. This is why state legislators, who have no medical expertise nor understand women's reproductive physiology, should not be making decisions to determine what reproductive care is appropriate.
I was a 7-month pre-me when my mother had kidney failure, and I was delivered by C-section in 1939 and am healthy now - do the math! How could a doctor NOT now do everything possible to save a pre-me?
And annoying that the moderators woukd not fact check Vance. So annoying!!
When I was a 13 yr old candy striper in a Catholic pediatric ward, I saw how the Catholics dealt with a born child with severe defects. They made it comfortable (likely with drugs) and allowed it to die. The parents were of course devastated. How much more compassionate an early abortion would have been.
It’s political malpractice by the Harris-Walz campaign team for Walz not to know what’s in a bill HE SIGNED when it is their number one animating issue. His performance was severely lacking for someone with his experience in politics.
He *knew* what was in the bill, he just couldn't quote it. And it's a fairly long bill.
Same difference when on national television
I'll just add that "late term" means different things to different people. By medical professional definition, the vast majority of abortions are performed in the first trimester or about 12 weeks. Having worked in a NICU, I know that if a "failed abortion" at 12 weeks resulted in a fetus that maybe took a few breathe or briefly had a heartbeat, the technology does not exist to keep that fetus alive. They are too small and too fragile to even survive resuscitation attempt. The number of abortions decreases as the pregnancy progresses, and the reasons to choose an abortion become more complicated and heartbreaking, usually involving serious medical conditions for the mother and or baby. MAGA people don't want to know that. They don't want to believe that even if a woman decided she really just didn't want to have that baby after all, where would she find a medical professional willing to accommodate her..? Before they speak in public, Vance and others like him should be required to study the statistics and individual cases of women who have chosen to terminate a pregnancy after about 23 or 24 weeks, or later, depending on when the baby's or mothers critical situation is discovered. Do they really think they have the right to deny the woman a choice? If every life has value doesn't that include the mother's?
Exactly
I wish Walz hammered JD for saying the democratic process was messy (states enacting draconian abortion laws). Walz could have added after his response where he brought up the woman (forgive me I don’t remember her name) likely lost her ability to have children that this isn’t messy it’s horrible. It’s despicable.
Waltz left too many lies on the table. Low information voters likely believed all of them.
Danged if he did (constantly fact checking), danged if he didn’t. By doing so, he’d have to be spending all his time covering stuff up
like a cat in a sandbox and no time to do any of his own business. I think DT will be pretty darn angry at Vance because of some of the “nice” ways/things he came across!!?
Yes!
Vance is slick and a good speaker. Tim is nervous and talks too quickly. But Tim is far better on substance. I just hope that viewers are not bamboozled by Vance’s style.
And lies.
We don't need slick - we need substance.
Finding it painful...wishing Tim Walz would push back much stronger on the false "illegal alien" comments that keep being spewed.
I too am finding this very painful. Vance is really good at sounding so reasonable.
He’s good at lying and twisting himself inside out to act like he has a clue. Immigrant immigrant immigrant. WE’RE A NATION BUILT ON THE BACKS OF IMMIGRANTS!!!! Helloooooo. (Sorry to yell). jerkydumbassvicious is very good at spewing BS. He’s pro family, not pro women. Invoked the name of ‘Christ.’ What happened to the separation of church and state? Why does he assume the nation is Christian?? I’m offended by that…as a Jewish woman and an American. I apologize if I’m chasing squirrels. I feel my brain exploding and my ears are bleeding. WAIT!!!! He just said orange oompa loompa peacefully transferred power on Jan. 20th???!!! OMG. I have to stop. My apologies.
I’ve been asking the same question, what happened to separation of church and state. I was born and raised in New York, this is not a Christian nation. What happened to the part of the First Amendment, you remember, the part that says we will establish no religion. I’m so pissed. Please forgive the rant.
Phyllis, you are FAR from ranting! Thank you for your words! You rock!!
No, you're wonderful! Thanks for saying what we're all all feeling! Thanks for shouting! As my friend keeps saying, we need to be loud!!
Thank you for the
compliment, Catherine 😊 Don’t tell anyone, though. you’ll ruin my reputation!
What I was afraid of, I didn’t watch for this reason we’ve been tortured enough by the media
I really think (hope) it's meant to be strategic. They both seem to be competing to be reasonable.
You must be gullible not to see how slick JD was and how much substance Walz spoke with.
Vance is terrifying. He is not as disorganized and chaotic as Trump....and much more dangerous.
Absolutely not terrifying to me, just a slick ass$$le
I love how Walz is concentrating on Vance's comments and preparing to respond. I also love how Walz is FACT CHECKING Vance since the moderators aren't. Walz win!!!
Tim Walz is doing a great job, holding his own against a serial liar. Unfortunately this debate is not going to change anybody’s opinion
Maybe you're wrong - Walz spoke to middle America.
Yes he was, but it did not have the same impact as the impact of the Harris-Trump debate.
I’m losing my mind. Either he sounds normal or he says so many lies the average person will begin to believe him like 1932 Germany
Oh my God! Soooo true! Frightening!!
Off topic… I’d like to take a moment to wish my new Jewish friends Happy Rosh Hashana!! May you be written in the Book of Life for another year! 🍎 🍯 ✡️
Worried. Vance has Tim on the defensive and making a good impression even while lying like the proverbial rug.
Walz was not on the defensive. He presented facts - the other guy lied and evaded questions.
Calm, measured presented information in an understandable manner. Love him. No histrionics
Vance lied and evaded questions for sure but Tim evaded the Tianamen Square question sadly and just seemed ill-at-ease until the very end. A substance win but maybe not a vibe. Probably won't make any difference in the long run.
I'm with you Jane. Because I keep watching it from the point of view of undecideds, especially as I'm here in northern Wisconsin trying to sway them… You had to be smart and informed to realize how much JD is lying. Did you listen to some of the undecided votersquestioned afterward? They all were thinking that… I mean they were literally going to base their whole vote on that debate… You have to know, you have to be informed and understand that he's LYING!!!!!!!
Doesn't make sense to base your vote on the 1 VP debate. Absurd!
CBS had a fact-checking website that was suspended a little more than halfway through the debate, which roughly-speaking had at least 75-25% more totally or partially false statements by Vance than by Walz. I searched after the debate for the promised continuation, but I could find none. And that is when Vance went over the top with lies.
Wonder why they suspended it. Thanks for the reply.
Exactly like 1932 Germany
God forbid. And with the orange oompa loompa
that will happen again.
And where are his eyes????
Trump helped Obamacare???? Really?
Up is down. Down is up. JD is the flying monkey in Oz protecting the wicked witch.
😹😹😹
Was so happy when Walz pointed out he tried to kill it repeatedly and would have succeeded without Mccain stepping in. Imagine how many more people would have died during covid if Trump had succeeded in killing it.
Trump and the MAGA House tried to repeal Obamacare...several times!
Right!!! I just threw up a little in the back of my throat.
😆
According to Vance, Trump SAVED Obamacare. Wow.
Walz managed to suck the poison out of this debate by being deeply sincere and not getting defensive. Nice. Vance has no substance.
Both did their homework and were amicable and gentlemen with each other. Refreshing.
Vance has his hands full explaining Trump's outrageous comments.
They are Vance’s outrageous lies and beliefs also.
Vance had two goals. Don’t look weird and be nice to the nice guy.
Oh, one more. Say the words “The Harris administration” over and over again.
I guess they are projecting she will win.
I also wonder where he got the “900 page policy” idea from. Project 2025 is about 900 pages.
I don’t want to second guess Walz. I think he did great. But I wish someone would have asked Vance about writing the forward for the 2025 book they aren’t releasing until AFTER the election.
Can’t stand Vance’s smirk.
Yes, the smirk is a mark of unmerited self regard and condescension.
And a certain self righteousness that is totally deluded!
Vance is so slick and lying through his teeth
Good last comment on democracy by walz
AMEN!
Sleezy, too.
I feel like Vance is telling a lot of lies and is slinging a lot of blame on Kamala — and no fact checking ugh! I think Walz is doing a great job setting him straight!
Totally agree that Vance was blaming Kamala for issues that were out of her control. He might have gone to Yale but did he take a basic Civic class? The VP does not have the authority that she was being faulted for. On the other hand, why didn't Tim Walz come back and push the issue that she was the VP and not the President to make "rules"? Vance also complained that he was fact-checked. Oh so sorry the lies just were so obvious!
In the last 5-10 minutes of the debate, Tim Walz shined! Vance proved he would not have stood up to Democracy as did Pence.
Absolutely too bad that Walz didn't emphasize that Harris was not in a position to dictate policy and HAS HER OWN WELL-EXPLAINED AGENDA!