You’re absolutely right. Heather Cox Richardson’s Substack addresses this today. Apparently a lot of Trump voters are finding out that a lot of what they believed to be true is anything but.
You’re absolutely right. Heather Cox Richardson’s Substack addresses this today. Apparently a lot of Trump voters are finding out that a lot of what they believed to be true is anything but.
And they need to find this out. Jonathan V. Last of The Bulwark wrote that Dems should let Trump be Trump, and not rescue Republicans from their actions. This is to the ends of helping Americans understand better who is behind their miseries.
There is a part of me that hopes that Republicans keep the house, and control all three branches. That way they have no one else to attach blame to for the coming chaos. I remember too many times when they blamed problems on "Democrat obstruction" when we had a divided government; and the right-wing media amplified that message.
But I genuinely fear the unshackled results. They will no doubt believe God is on their side, thus the complete rout of Democrats, full authoritarian steam ahead. Regardless, they will continue to blame Democrats, even far into their administration. Then there's FoxMusk.
It will also be a good opportunity for people to figure out whether they want to live in the US. I am considering on writing about some other options. I realize many feel fight to the end. Others may want to spend more of their lives living in a place where they have fewer disagreements with the people in charge, and the public in general. Reading in Spy Talk today about those who believe a civil war is coming and are preparing for it.
I understand your feelings - and in fact I DID leave South Africa - which I still feel I would do again. BUT - this country has too many really good and bright people; and this is the country that is worth and in fact demands fighting for. And --- as I've thought about the moving thing - to where? I don't want to learn a foreign language - and except for New Zealand - where would you go. We don't know the depth of problems and challenges in other countries - I mean - the UK is not doing so well.
I speak German since it is my second language and mother's tongue. Whatever is wrong with Germany, all of the Americans that I know here through Democrats Abroad feel like we avoid a lot of problems that we have in the US. It is cheaper to live here, I can drink safe water from my tap, groceries are way cheaper, and there is good transportation access. Housing tends to be cheaper and better protected. Everyone is required to have health insurance, so the public health insurance cannot turn you down for preexisting conditions. So, for all the things wrong, it has a lot of benefits.
My daughter goes to university in a major city, and we don't pay tuition. We paid a fee of 299€ this fall. I do not have to worry about her being on her own in the city, because she has city smarts and people are not walking around carrying guns. As a parent it is a relief. She went by train to visit good friends in Vienna for the weekend. She is used to getting around independently without having to own a car. That is a plus for her, for us, and for the environment.
By the way, Ireland is great for English speakers. Also, I know a lot of expats now who do not speak the language of the country they live in well or at all, just like there are people in the US in the same situation.
Good question. Upon arrival in Berlin Trump's ambassador at the time Richard Grenell (possibly the next SecofState) stressed in an interview that one of his central objectives was the strengthening of conservative and nationalistic movements. Rightwing extremists all over Europe are salivating right now.
Aslo if you look at what Noah Berlatsky said, there have been backlashes to governments who have been in power when covid too place. Now, you can see that as a relief that people everywhere blame their leadership for the effects of covid to the economy. Desperate people often just want change.
In the meantime, the EU is not the US. There are structural things to the governments that make them less subject to take over by one party. Hungary, Slovakia and Serbia are not the majority of the EU. And, good news. Maldova staved off Russian backed aggressors.
On the other hand, the Journal of Democracy has a discussion of Backsliding Democracies, which might contradict the effects of covid on the election, and gives more credence to the idea that the media and messaging are of utmost importance in getting and keeping an illiberal leader in power.
I was saying this before the election, and by the reports of surprise of the many Trump voters for what they have now signed up for, I would say that the corporate and social media are behind what happened in the US elections.
Germany has a different media scape, and they also have different democratic institutions. We shall see if these help them to stay more democratic. Other EU countries have multiparty systems as well. We shall see if Democracy was only a temporary experiment or a more permanent one.
Sorry to be a spoilsport and a worry wort, Linda, but Trumpism will only further encourage the AfD, at a time when the Federal Government is now a weak minority one.
Interestingly, Derek (above) highlighted New Zealand, where Peter Thiel has his billionaire's redoubt.
The new German States formerly known as the DDR, make up 15% of the German population. I understand that the AfD, which won a majority, which is won 33% in 2 of these 5 new States, and came in second place in one of the States is not a sweeping mandate for them. However, I pick my cities, and hopefully you pick yours too. I am not saying there is paradise, but I know what my priorities in life are, and my daughter, who is in university does not have to pay tuition. It relives a lot of stress in life for her and for us. There are other things. We had planned this for a long time before Trump ever came to power, and have more family here than in the US at this point. The family that I do have in the US is doing well, but some are also German citizens and will be returning here latest when they die, because that is the plan for my mom and her sibling. They have already paid for it too.
I think after everyone sees how Trump's governance goes it will be a case against it.
The problem is that there is no "safe haven". What happens in the U.S. has reverberations elsewhere and will further support right-wing movements in Europe and elsewhere.
Even if there will be reverberations everywhere because countries don't live in a vacuum, there are safer places. I think one has to be flexible. I will ask you to look at pages 8 and 9 of the global peace index. The US is at #132 in 2024. I will be interested to see if that number goes down in 2025 with the advent of Trump taking office.
As you can see there are 131 countries who are considered safer. Many of them are in the African continent. However, with global warming that might change. I am more north on the planet in the EU than I was in the US.
Other than Namibia, I am not sure I can think of a country in Africa which, fo a variety of other reasons, would be a better place to live. As you hinted, with global warming, the African Continent will become unlivable. Parts of it already are. And famine will get worse. medical care is not all that good either.
Anyway, as I live in Northern Europe as well, I suppose I should not thrown stones. I would just not easily recommend to folks to pull up alot of roots to move with expectations of finding a Trump-free paradise on earth.
I have always recommended that people need to be flexible. That is what made the USA, a country filled with immigrants and their offspring. I really get annoyed with those who find it to be the greatest place.
And as Noah Berlatsky said the other day, a lot of countries have had recent backlash against the ruling party in elections post covid. The Ukraine war has not helped, and Putin has helped to try to support illiberal politicians. However, he has not always had success. Are countries getting wise to him. I would like to think so.
There are people like me, who are permanently barred from immigrating anywhere. No one wants a Disabled person. We moved to a blue state a few years ago, and that’s the best we can do.
I will respectfully disagree. I am a follower of John Dewey who wrote Experience and Education. His philosophy on which the school I used to teach was based is that people learn best from meaningful experiences with real consequences.
For the MAGAs who believed Trump was going to save the economy they did not learn anything. Protecting them from it will not help them learn lessons we need them to learn for everyone's survival in the US. People can move to Blue States where governors are already pledging buffers.
I do not blame the people, I blame the corporate and social media. Many people apparently live in deserts of accurate, insightful media. They have neither the time, know-how or resources to find it. They don't read, they pick entertainment over information. But, if they rely on locally available media they don't have it.
I do not want petty revenge, I want people to learn lessons that will help them to do better informed voting. If they felt that they could just focus on earning a living and throwing in some occasional fun times, they will see that more is required of them to avoid what will probably happen. If they feel that God will swoop down from heaven and save them and any suffering they have in the meantime is deserved, well there is no helping them.
I’m not talking about the people who need to learn their lesson. I’m talking about the people who will be collateral damage. Pick any bad consequence, it will affect us all, not just his voters.
I agree! It will effect the entire planet. Global warming will be sped up to new levels we cannot return from. However, some will be affected more than others. Just look at education alone. With plans to dismantle and defund the department of education and put special education in Health and Human Services, while they put regular education into the Department of Labor as students are funneled into the jobs immigrants used to take before being deported, instead of high school or college.
I do not have an elementary education child. I am affected on that less than those who have children who need child care or primary education. In my family there is one child in undergraduate studies and the other working on his PhD in the US. The junior might finish her education before her funding is totally destroyed, but I will advise her to leave rather than take on the kinds of predatory loans that they are planning on to finish.
I am counting on parents across the country, to realize that the most important thing about primary education is not whether or not the government gives gender reassignment in schools, but whether or not schools even exist any more. It is a very anti-intellectual third world making agenda. It will be effecting those who are not in the know more. Those who are not US citizens more. Those who are undocumented more. Those who are female more. Those who are non-White more. Those who are not Christian nationalists more. Those who Trump doesn't consider allies more. Change won't happen over night, and we should not be giving in to it already. We should be planning our survival.
However, until his voters, and the 93 million who did not vote, actually feel the consequences of his policies, they may not make the effort to inform themselves enough to change them, together with us.
Ruth, it's so poignant. What Robert and HCR are uncovering for us is that the 1/3 of Trump voters either a) listened ONLY to Fox lies and swallowed them hook, line, and sinker with no thought whatsoever; or b) did not listen to either side but just voted as a knee-jerk--"oh, I like his pretty orange hair." Now, they are going to have to suck up the results, having used the power of their vote like a child would use a Colt 45. In ignorance, however innocent, of the deadly result. We are going to have to drag them out of Trumps Nazi ditch along with ourselves. We must act going forward with unprecedented toughness, clear vision, and absolute love. It ain't gonna be easy or pretty.
You’re absolutely right. Heather Cox Richardson’s Substack addresses this today. Apparently a lot of Trump voters are finding out that a lot of what they believed to be true is anything but.
And they need to find this out. Jonathan V. Last of The Bulwark wrote that Dems should let Trump be Trump, and not rescue Republicans from their actions. This is to the ends of helping Americans understand better who is behind their miseries.
https://www.thebulwark.com/p/a-modest-proposal-let-trump-be-trump
There is a part of me that hopes that Republicans keep the house, and control all three branches. That way they have no one else to attach blame to for the coming chaos. I remember too many times when they blamed problems on "Democrat obstruction" when we had a divided government; and the right-wing media amplified that message.
Have to disagree. We desperately need the House.
But I genuinely fear the unshackled results. They will no doubt believe God is on their side, thus the complete rout of Democrats, full authoritarian steam ahead. Regardless, they will continue to blame Democrats, even far into their administration. Then there's FoxMusk.
It will also be a good opportunity for people to figure out whether they want to live in the US. I am considering on writing about some other options. I realize many feel fight to the end. Others may want to spend more of their lives living in a place where they have fewer disagreements with the people in charge, and the public in general. Reading in Spy Talk today about those who believe a civil war is coming and are preparing for it.
https://www.spytalk.co/p/new-in-spyweek-plot-to-murder-trump?utm_campaign=email-post&r=f0qfn&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
I understand your feelings - and in fact I DID leave South Africa - which I still feel I would do again. BUT - this country has too many really good and bright people; and this is the country that is worth and in fact demands fighting for. And --- as I've thought about the moving thing - to where? I don't want to learn a foreign language - and except for New Zealand - where would you go. We don't know the depth of problems and challenges in other countries - I mean - the UK is not doing so well.
I speak German since it is my second language and mother's tongue. Whatever is wrong with Germany, all of the Americans that I know here through Democrats Abroad feel like we avoid a lot of problems that we have in the US. It is cheaper to live here, I can drink safe water from my tap, groceries are way cheaper, and there is good transportation access. Housing tends to be cheaper and better protected. Everyone is required to have health insurance, so the public health insurance cannot turn you down for preexisting conditions. So, for all the things wrong, it has a lot of benefits.
My daughter goes to university in a major city, and we don't pay tuition. We paid a fee of 299€ this fall. I do not have to worry about her being on her own in the city, because she has city smarts and people are not walking around carrying guns. As a parent it is a relief. She went by train to visit good friends in Vienna for the weekend. She is used to getting around independently without having to own a car. That is a plus for her, for us, and for the environment.
By the way, Ireland is great for English speakers. Also, I know a lot of expats now who do not speak the language of the country they live in well or at all, just like there are people in the US in the same situation.
How long will Germany and the rest of Europe be safe, I wonder?
Good question. Upon arrival in Berlin Trump's ambassador at the time Richard Grenell (possibly the next SecofState) stressed in an interview that one of his central objectives was the strengthening of conservative and nationalistic movements. Rightwing extremists all over Europe are salivating right now.
Aslo if you look at what Noah Berlatsky said, there have been backlashes to governments who have been in power when covid too place. Now, you can see that as a relief that people everywhere blame their leadership for the effects of covid to the economy. Desperate people often just want change.
https://www.publicnotice.co/p/kamala-harris-anti-incumbent-backlash-2024
In the meantime, the EU is not the US. There are structural things to the governments that make them less subject to take over by one party. Hungary, Slovakia and Serbia are not the majority of the EU. And, good news. Maldova staved off Russian backed aggressors.
On the other hand, the Journal of Democracy has a discussion of Backsliding Democracies, which might contradict the effects of covid on the election, and gives more credence to the idea that the media and messaging are of utmost importance in getting and keeping an illiberal leader in power.
https://www.journalofdemocracy.org/articles/misunderstanding-democratic-backsliding/
I was saying this before the election, and by the reports of surprise of the many Trump voters for what they have now signed up for, I would say that the corporate and social media are behind what happened in the US elections.
Germany has a different media scape, and they also have different democratic institutions. We shall see if these help them to stay more democratic. Other EU countries have multiparty systems as well. We shall see if Democracy was only a temporary experiment or a more permanent one.
Sorry to be a spoilsport and a worry wort, Linda, but Trumpism will only further encourage the AfD, at a time when the Federal Government is now a weak minority one.
Interestingly, Derek (above) highlighted New Zealand, where Peter Thiel has his billionaire's redoubt.
The new German States formerly known as the DDR, make up 15% of the German population. I understand that the AfD, which won a majority, which is won 33% in 2 of these 5 new States, and came in second place in one of the States is not a sweeping mandate for them. However, I pick my cities, and hopefully you pick yours too. I am not saying there is paradise, but I know what my priorities in life are, and my daughter, who is in university does not have to pay tuition. It relives a lot of stress in life for her and for us. There are other things. We had planned this for a long time before Trump ever came to power, and have more family here than in the US at this point. The family that I do have in the US is doing well, but some are also German citizens and will be returning here latest when they die, because that is the plan for my mom and her sibling. They have already paid for it too.
I think after everyone sees how Trump's governance goes it will be a case against it.
I am very very glad for you and your family. really, no facetiousness at all implied.
The UK was also ruined by Rupert Murdoch.
The problem is that there is no "safe haven". What happens in the U.S. has reverberations elsewhere and will further support right-wing movements in Europe and elsewhere.
Even if there will be reverberations everywhere because countries don't live in a vacuum, there are safer places. I think one has to be flexible. I will ask you to look at pages 8 and 9 of the global peace index. The US is at #132 in 2024. I will be interested to see if that number goes down in 2025 with the advent of Trump taking office.
https://www.economicsandpeace.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/GPI-2024-web.pdf
As you can see there are 131 countries who are considered safer. Many of them are in the African continent. However, with global warming that might change. I am more north on the planet in the EU than I was in the US.
Other than Namibia, I am not sure I can think of a country in Africa which, fo a variety of other reasons, would be a better place to live. As you hinted, with global warming, the African Continent will become unlivable. Parts of it already are. And famine will get worse. medical care is not all that good either.
Anyway, as I live in Northern Europe as well, I suppose I should not thrown stones. I would just not easily recommend to folks to pull up alot of roots to move with expectations of finding a Trump-free paradise on earth.
I have always recommended that people need to be flexible. That is what made the USA, a country filled with immigrants and their offspring. I really get annoyed with those who find it to be the greatest place.
And as Noah Berlatsky said the other day, a lot of countries have had recent backlash against the ruling party in elections post covid. The Ukraine war has not helped, and Putin has helped to try to support illiberal politicians. However, he has not always had success. Are countries getting wise to him. I would like to think so.
There are people like me, who are permanently barred from immigrating anywhere. No one wants a Disabled person. We moved to a blue state a few years ago, and that’s the best we can do.
I am glad to hear Blue State governors speaking out to stand up to Trumpism in their states. There is still much that they can do.
Petty revenge sounds great, but Dems need to try and prevent as much harm as they can.
I will respectfully disagree. I am a follower of John Dewey who wrote Experience and Education. His philosophy on which the school I used to teach was based is that people learn best from meaningful experiences with real consequences.
For the MAGAs who believed Trump was going to save the economy they did not learn anything. Protecting them from it will not help them learn lessons we need them to learn for everyone's survival in the US. People can move to Blue States where governors are already pledging buffers.
I do not blame the people, I blame the corporate and social media. Many people apparently live in deserts of accurate, insightful media. They have neither the time, know-how or resources to find it. They don't read, they pick entertainment over information. But, if they rely on locally available media they don't have it.
I do not want petty revenge, I want people to learn lessons that will help them to do better informed voting. If they felt that they could just focus on earning a living and throwing in some occasional fun times, they will see that more is required of them to avoid what will probably happen. If they feel that God will swoop down from heaven and save them and any suffering they have in the meantime is deserved, well there is no helping them.
I’m not talking about the people who need to learn their lesson. I’m talking about the people who will be collateral damage. Pick any bad consequence, it will affect us all, not just his voters.
I agree! It will effect the entire planet. Global warming will be sped up to new levels we cannot return from. However, some will be affected more than others. Just look at education alone. With plans to dismantle and defund the department of education and put special education in Health and Human Services, while they put regular education into the Department of Labor as students are funneled into the jobs immigrants used to take before being deported, instead of high school or college.
I do not have an elementary education child. I am affected on that less than those who have children who need child care or primary education. In my family there is one child in undergraduate studies and the other working on his PhD in the US. The junior might finish her education before her funding is totally destroyed, but I will advise her to leave rather than take on the kinds of predatory loans that they are planning on to finish.
I am counting on parents across the country, to realize that the most important thing about primary education is not whether or not the government gives gender reassignment in schools, but whether or not schools even exist any more. It is a very anti-intellectual third world making agenda. It will be effecting those who are not in the know more. Those who are not US citizens more. Those who are undocumented more. Those who are female more. Those who are non-White more. Those who are not Christian nationalists more. Those who Trump doesn't consider allies more. Change won't happen over night, and we should not be giving in to it already. We should be planning our survival.
However, until his voters, and the 93 million who did not vote, actually feel the consequences of his policies, they may not make the effort to inform themselves enough to change them, together with us.
This makes no sense. trump voters are suddenly awakening to the truth? Finally, just three days after the election? No.
Yes, they are: Jeff Tiedrich gives an example, too. What we have to remember is not to say "I told you so" but "I tried to tell you."
Ruth, it's so poignant. What Robert and HCR are uncovering for us is that the 1/3 of Trump voters either a) listened ONLY to Fox lies and swallowed them hook, line, and sinker with no thought whatsoever; or b) did not listen to either side but just voted as a knee-jerk--"oh, I like his pretty orange hair." Now, they are going to have to suck up the results, having used the power of their vote like a child would use a Colt 45. In ignorance, however innocent, of the deadly result. We are going to have to drag them out of Trumps Nazi ditch along with ourselves. We must act going forward with unprecedented toughness, clear vision, and absolute love. It ain't gonna be easy or pretty.